OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Would it be an idea to start an issue on tactics? I would like to engage in an exchange of ideas about penholder-tactics. Especially about different strategies of control/attack; for instance, the way Gao Jun is using her backhand as compared to Saki Kanasawa (formerly Man Li of China), or the use of the classic alternative for the reverse backhand.

I'd be interested in discussing that as I've used both classic Japanese/Korean style single sided penholder with both short pips and inverted and Chinese style reverse penhold with short pips FH.

I've seen Gao Jun play, but I'm not familiar with Saki. Can you describe?

-- Andrew

Hi Andrew! Saki Kanazawa is a lefthander. Last time I saw her (April 2006, Bremen), she was a member of the Japanese national team. I don't know what frame she has (probably a fast one), but she uses a Tackifire rubber (forehand only). It is quick and simple, and so is her game. She positions herself at the far right corner of the table and stays there - or thereabouts - most of the time, reaching out and spinning or smashing with her forehand, and punching fiercely back anything that comes in front of her or at her right with her "backhand". She loves to punch diagonally. These punches are fast! I have never seen her leave the table - she stays there, at perhaps half a meter, like she belongs. She seldom uses defensive strokes (Gao Jun does: blocks, chops), she really is an all-out attacker. Her service is deceptive: she tosses the ball high and kind of wobbles her hand before she strikes; she produces a lot of short, curved balls (sidespin, either way) that way. She is pretty quick on her feet and typically sort of bounces left or right, but seldom very far. She doesn't need to, her attacks are too powerful. The overall impression is that of a fast striking, well positioned hitter.

The interesting thing, tactically, is that she kills with her "backhand" as well as with her forehand. I've seen Gao Jun kill with backhand strokes, but not often and not with fast punches: her punches are slow and well placed and perhaps with backspin, half-chops, difficult to return. Kanazawa's punches are very fast, very powerful, and out of reach of her opponents. You know Wang Hao, of course, how he uses his RPB to kill almost anything that is coming at him. It looks impressive and when you see him play you wonder whether any penholder could do without that attacking stroke. Kanazawa can, obviously. So can Gao.

I have been playing competition with pips-out lately and found it difficult; your timing needs to be just right. With inverted you have more time to pick up the ball. But I have to say that my topspin is not that good. I have seen clips with Liu Guoliang playing pips out like he had inverted - almost! Great spin, total control... And virtually no punching - everything with his forehand. I am certainly not fast enough on my feet for that! That's why I try to copy Gao Jun. Old guy, you know...

Kees

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Without opponent, no match.

Sounds like someone worth watching especially since she is a lefty. Do you have any video of her in action?

I wonder how similar her style is to Yoshida Kaii and Seiko Iseki, both single sided penholders who are/were the most recent Japanese champs and also Chinese ex-patriates.

-- Andrew

I have videotaped (TV) myself a match of hers against Georgina Pota (I think) of Rumania, but I know of no other videos. Searched the Internet for it and drew a blank.
I don't know Iseki; never seen him play, that is. And I don't think her game resembles that of Yoshida. I have never seen him play a match either, but Butterfly has demo-clips of him (amongst others) on its website, and he seems to move quite differently. Also, I read a review of a match of his on the ITTF site, which said that he covered every inch of the floor. Kanazawa doesn't do that. But then, men's play differs from women's. Too much power in it, I think. In fact, I like women's play better. More technique, more exquisite tactics; a lot more like tabletennis used to be in the 80's and early 90's.
Sorry I can't help you out. I'll keep my eyes open. If I stumble upon something, I'll let you know. Here, of course.

Kees

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Without opponent, no match.

Andrew, to get back to tactics and Gao Jun: to me the most interesting aspect of her game is that she doesn't seem to produce very difficult balls. Most of the time she blocks or pushes the ball right back, aiming at the body (or elbow) of her opponent. She varies the speed, but not a whole lot, and never hits very hard (not even her kills). Yet by aiming at the elbow/body she makes her opponent move from side to side (not in-out), at first a little, then more, and then, when her opponent really has to move, she starts spreading, and eventually hits a winner.
I guess this tactic goes well with her equipment. She has a comparatively slow blade (speed about 6 or 7), slow rubber (1.5 mm), and no rubber on the other side, which makes her bat light and therefore easy to manipulate and well suited to block the speed out of incoming fast balls.

What amazes me is that at her level of professional play this actually works. I would imagine that without lots of topspin or underspin, or speed, to deal with, opponents would have no difficulty at all in returning. You are far more experienced than I am. Do you think she is actually using more underspin on her pushes and blocks than I think she does? Or is this simple controlling style of play actually very effective, even at a high level?

Kees

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Without opponent, no match.

Gao Jun's is an older style that was effective for a long time. When I've watched her she seemed to use a lot of sidespin on her blocks.

On the men's side, it wasn't until opponents developed effective backhands and flips off serves that the style went into decline. On the women's side, there is less power so it can still be effective, plus it's unfamiliar.

On the men's side, He Zhi Wen of Spain is still effective with a somewhat more agressive blocking style. He almost eliminated Kreanga from the World Championships in 2003, did eliminate Schlager in 2005 and went 7 with Karlsson. So it works for him (a 43 year old) for the same reason.

At a lower level, I still think it can be very effective as there isn't the mix of power and consistency there is at higher levels.

-- Andrew

I found a Saki Kanazawa video for you. It is over here: http://forum.oneofakindtrading.com.au/v ... php?t=6501

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NITTAKU SEPTEAR cpen | FH: 729 802, 1.5, black | RPB: CORNILLEAU PILOT POWER, 2.0, red
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

It used to be a Korbel cpen with Tackifire C and Raystorm. I think the tackifire is gone and it's now T05...

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Chasse Patate

Cool, thank you!

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-- Andrew

Spintech All Around Penhold blade
Spinlord Keiler II 1.5 black
Nittaku FastArc G1 red

729 all around blade
Tibhar Grass D-Tec S Red
Nittaku FastArc G1 black

All of those Saki Kanazawa video links are dead.

Here's one. Thank you martinspin: http://com.martinspin.ch/video/643851:Video:22052

Yes, she is exactly as Kees described.