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 Post subject: Knock On Wood?
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2015, 09:59 
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I looked around the forum and did some searching but could not find any information on this subject. I play pengrip and like to flip my bat around and use the wooden side of it. Not only does it produce a satisfying sound, that must be similar to the one produced by the cigar boxes used by the pioneers of our sport in the days when everyone smoked, but I find it to be an effective way of dealing with spin. It also, for shots without spin at least, seems to be faster than the tackifire drive I use on the other side. But it seems like just the kind of thing that the ITTF would ban for no apparent reason. So I was wondering, firstly, if it is legal to use this technique, and, secondly, if anyone has any tricks or set-ups that they would care to share.

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 Post subject: Re: Knock On Wood?
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2015, 10:35 
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It isn't legal (and it must be of opposite color too black/red).

You might enjoy a "hardbat" rubber (pips out, no sponge, made of a harder, less-grippy rubber). I recently tried three of them and Dr. Evil had the least grip and weighed the least too. Might have to paint the blade under it because it's translucent. EDIT: No, I was thinking of another rubber. Red Dr. Evil is not translucent.

Also, an antispin topsheet on the thinnest sponge you can find might be good. Joola Tony Hold Dampening Foil, at .3mm, is the thinnest that I remember seeing.


Last edited by Zhaoyang on 19 Oct 2015, 19:41, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Knock On Wood?
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2015, 11:15 
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Zhaoyang wrote:
It isn't legal


:headbang: You must be joking!

I'd love to know the reason for that. For me, it's something I do more for style points and fun than anything else, since the disadvantages, against people who are wise to it, seem to outweigh the benefits. Those seem to be reasonable alternatives that you suggest. What about sand people? I've heard some people put that on their blade...

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Last edited by Intu Net on 16 Oct 2015, 12:14, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Knock On Wood?
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2015, 11:23 
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The side of a bat used to hit the ball with must be covered with rubber either:
pimples out with or without a layer of sponge underneath
OR
pimples in with a layer of sponge underneath.

The side of a bat not used to hit the ball must be coloured the other of red or black depending on the rubber colour on the other side.

If a player hits the ball with a side of the bat without legal racket covering then they lose the point.

This is a fairly close paraphrase of the ITTF rules.

As for why, it was in the interests of standardization of the sport. At one stage there were: bare wood, sandpaper, vellum, pimples out rubber with & without sponge underneath, pimples in rubber with and without sponge underneath, whatever else anyone could dream up, and no restrictions on the thickness of any covering.

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 Post subject: Re: Knock On Wood?
PostPosted: 16 Oct 2015, 11:36 
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Retriever wrote:
At one stage there were: bare wood, sandpaper, vellum, pimples out rubber with & without sponge underneath, pimples in rubber with and without sponge underneath, whatever else anyone could dream up, and no restrictions on the thickness of any covering.


The more, the merrier. The fewer, the bluer.

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 Post subject: Re: Knock On Wood?
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2015, 13:05 
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You can try using short pimple rubber without sponge on your other side. I think it can produce fairly the same ball path.


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 Post subject: Re: Knock On Wood?
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2015, 13:54 
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^ I ordered some Dr Evil. It sounds like fun. I'll let people know how I get on. I'm still open to suggestions, though, since I'll be getting a new set-up soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Knock On Wood?
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2015, 17:27 
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Zhaoyang wrote:
It isn't legal (and it must be of opposite color too black/red).

You might enjoy a "hardbat" rubber (pips out, no sponge, made of a harder, less-grippy rubber). I recently tried three of them and Dr. Evil had the least grip and weighed the least too. Might have to paint the blade under it because it's translucent.

Also, an antispin topsheet on the thinnest sponge you can find might be good. Joola Tony Hold Dampening Foil, at .3mm, is the thinnest that I remember seeing.


I've read this before about Dr evil being translucent/transparent but the 2 sheets I have are more like bicycle tyre rubber, not translucent at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Knock On Wood?
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2015, 19:34 
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My mistake!
I was thinking of red 755 or 388D-1. Red Dr. Evil is not translucent.


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 Post subject: Re: Knock On Wood?
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2015, 00:44 
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Intu Net wrote:
I looked around the forum and did some searching but could not find any information on this subject. I play pengrip and like to flip my bat around and use the wooden side of it. Not only does it produce a satisfying sound, that must be similar to the one produced by the cigar boxes used by the pioneers of our sport in the days when everyone smoked, but I find it to be an effective way of dealing with spin. It also, for shots without spin at least, seems to be faster than the tackifire drive I use on the other side. But it seems like just the kind of thing that the ITTF would ban for no apparent reason. So I was wondering, firstly, if it is legal to use this technique, and, secondly, if anyone has any tricks or set-ups that they would care to share.


This USED to be legal, back in the 1980s - I remember people doing it once in a while. No one actually practiced doing it, so a lot of the time the ball ended up going where the player did NOT want it to go! Back then, it was mainly Japanese style penhold bats with wood on the back. IIRC this went out with the advent of the two color rule.

Retriever wrote:
At one stage there were: bare wood, sandpaper, vellum, pimples out rubber with & without sponge underneath, pimples in rubber with and without sponge underneath, whatever else anyone could dream up, and no restrictions on the thickness of any covering.


You forgot the one that started all the trouble, thick bare sponge! :lol: Before that, NO rules whatsoever.

By the way.. here's something REALLY evil for the back side of a racket:

http://ttnpp.com/store/dawei/451-dawei- ... nge-6.html

Image

Or this:

http://ttnpp.com/store/dawei/452-guai-j ... nge-6.html

Image

Dr. Evil, despite the name, is pretty standard stuff, so much so it's allowed in Hardbat competition. This stuff, I've seen people get pretty vehement about - rants, curses, etc.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Knock On Wood?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2015, 01:22 
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I used to do play with bare wood on backside in the 80's flipping if around to return serve or change things up but with the advent of better rubber and rpb it was like playing with a disadvantage when I could attack on both sides with different rubbers which one can't do with wood. I admit it would be an advantage to change thing up or like a no spin side with difficult spins and my blade was lighter. with needing to put a color on that side I may as well put rubber on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Knock On Wood?
PostPosted: 27 Jan 2016, 02:00 
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Isn't the rule the ball can't be deliberetely hit with the wooded side.
If the player gets himself in a big tangle and somehow returns it with the wooden side, is it a foul?
If so, wouldn't returning the ball with the handle be a foul too?


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