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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2017, 01:37 
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Exactly what I was saying... to paraphrase.. "If Xu Xin would ONLY RPB BETTER, he'd beat Harimoto, he'd beat Mizutani, heck, he'd even beat Ma Long!!"... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2017, 02:26 
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HuLimei wrote:
I mean that child Harimoto took a set off of Xu Xin for God's sake. That is unacceptable..


That "Child" is one of the best players in the world and has beaten players that have done more than just take a set off of XX, AND he reached the quarter-finals of the World Championships. He has outright beaten these guys:
Timo Boll
Koki Niwa
Jun Mizutani
Hugo Calderano
Kristian Karlsson
Vladimir Samsonov

Would it be unacceptable if Samsonov, Mizutani, or Boll had taken a game off of him? Even if XX was having a great day, I don't think it's out of the question to think Tomo should get a game off him.

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2017, 16:02 
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I don't doubt the insane competitiveness of Tomokazu Harimoto ... Also he is still just 14-yrs old :swear: I can't imagine FZD was like that @ 14-yrs though.

I would think that any Penhold or Shakehand player would have trouble playing against him.

Top-10 in the world isn't just a title ! Ultra-high levels of intense points and games. Its not hard to see matches go down to the wire. 3-3 games and decider 10-10 :lol:

So the decisive victories tend to be rare, few and far-between.

Also Penhold mechanics is just different enough from Shakehand that coaches who are used to Shakehand play cannot readily adjust their coaching for Penhold players.

I had one local coach flat out tell me that looking at Penhold grip person playing IRRITATES him like crazy at a personal level ... Let me explain :lol: ... its not terrible ...

His reasoning being wrist is dropped and locked with bat parallel to forearm for Shakehand. But with Penhold the wrist is free and the bat "hangs" down due to gravity. :lol: He constantly feels the need to correct the "wrong" grip and subconsciously it makes him feel highly irritated. :rofl:

You can see how or why coaches might prefer one grip.

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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 12:30 
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I am going to say something here that will totally annoy you.. :lol:

The best RPB is inferior to the best orthodox shakehands backhands. Ma Long's for instance, or Fan Zhendong's, or Harimoto's. Even Ovtcharov's. RPB was invented to cover a weakness in penhold play, namely the far backhand. On the far backhand, you can develop more speed, more spin, and even more sidespin, if you know what you're doing, with the shakehands grip than you can with RPB.

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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 17:54 
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I beg to differ. BH stroke is a wrist-assisted stroke whether you play Shakehand or Penhold. Penhold has the greatest wrist mobility. Hence, Penhold BH IS the MOST Powerful stroke for BH. The problem is there isn't enough people to research and develop the RPB beyond its current use.

:rofl:

/opinion

Please add your perspectives as well. :-)

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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 22:49 
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man_iii wrote:
I beg to differ. BH stroke is a wrist-assisted stroke whether you play Shakehand or Penhold. Penhold has the greatest wrist mobility. Hence, Penhold BH IS the MOST Powerful stroke for BH. The problem is there isn't enough people to research and develop the RPB beyond its current use.

:rofl:

/opinion

Please add your perspectives as well. :-)

I agree with that Man_iii. I think that RBP has the same potential as conventional backhands in terms of shot quality (and maybe even more) it's just harder on one's anatomy. I don't think that the best conventional BHs are any better than Wang Hao's RBP when he was in his prime, and there have been interviews with pros saying his RBP spin was superior to any SH player at the time.

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The best RPB is inferior to the best orthodox shakehands backhands. Ma Long's for instance, or Fan Zhendong's, or Harimoto's. Even Ovtcharov's. RPB was invented to cover a weakness in penhold play, namely the far backhand. On the far backhand, you can develop more speed, more spin, and even more sidespin, if you know what you're doing, with the shakehands grip than you can with RPB.

It's not that conventional BHs are better, it's that Ma Long, FZD, and Tomo are better than any current RBP Players with THEIR BH. It's not the grip. TBP is definitely a weakness. RBP isn't, it's just so hard to get your wrist and fingers to do without damaging your joints. There is an RBP player at one of the clubs I go to...around 2100, playing that way his whole life, he's about to give it up because his wrist and fingers are so badly damaged now. You can even see it just by looking at his playing had. It looks like he's got advanced Rheumatoid Arthritis, and very different than his non-playing hand.

Also, because of it's unpopularity, PH has a substantially smaller pool of talent, so likely there will not be another Wang Hao anytime soon. Just like defenders... smaller population, less coaching, less of a chance anyone that isn't an attacking Shakehander will be in the top 10, much less with an awesome RPB.

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PostPosted: 11 Sep 2017, 01:18 
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I've been away. Health and family problems (mom passed). It amuses me how. My topic evolved. Happens on the guitar forum I'm on also.

The rpb and traditional back hand help and chase each other. I felt that the rpb help evolve the trad do that over the table flick. Although I've not thought about the stars we've had in the last generation of penholders. Ma Lin, wang hao, and Rhy Seung min. We may not have a penhold triumvirate again.

I'm a penholder and right now the trad backhand is stronger. Jjk and fzd are backhand dominant players and I can see their grip can put some real muscle behind the ball that three fingered rpb can't do. Xx is a forehand dominant player and his rpb is stiff. Machine like. Wong Chung ting has a better rpb. But not even wang hao hit the 'heavy' ball the jzk and fzd and even ma long hit. Hopefully a better penholder will come up and the Chinese coaches will put in some time do develop a better rpb. Neither grip inherently is better or worse. It really the player that makes it happen.


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