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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2017, 01:39 
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Blade: TSP Versal CP
FH: Sanwei Target National
BH: Yasaka Rakza 9
I notice that a LOT of C-pen players drop their shoulders vertically and keep FH bat near to their thighs and play an almost straight upward FH stroke.

How in HEAVEN does the ball fly horizontally with the low yet extremely spinny return ?? If I tried that I would end up with "Chicken"-wing syndrome.

Also I notice how Ma Lin and Xu Fei play their FH returns. It is extremely explosive. My returns are nowhere even close to their movement.

I tend to play close- and mid- table distances. I use mostly my forearm. For heavy under-spin I will crouch and use leg+hip+shoulder to brush.

Problem is that I have no formal coaching or access to a good C-pen coach. So I have a LOT of flaws.

What is the natural or "instinctive" way to develop the C-pen FH loop + loop-drive. Where do I find the extreme spinny loop and extreme explosive power ?

I have tried to watch and learn from XX but there is no way I will be able to mimic his body mechanics or grip. Ma Lin / Xu Fei / Wang Hao style play is my only option.

Lets not worry too much about how much I can move or position myself for now :lol: I know I am deadweight and too slow :-D

Assuming I am in position to meet the ball to play a FH loop, I will be playing cross-table, ball has moderate incoming topspin,

What are the requirements and techniques to play to get the heaviest spin loop near- , mid- and far- table locations ? What are the exercises and drills I should use to maximize my ability to play the heavy spin FH loop ?

_________________
__________________________________________________________
Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-729OEM/729SuperFX
    2. FH/BH-STN
  • 729 Bomb : FH/BH-YRD/T5QS
  • DHS PowerG-9 : FH/BH-729SuperFX
  • Stag Balsa Koto : FH/BH-YRD/YR9
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH-YSD
==========================================================


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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2017, 09:10 
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Use your waist? Maybe go and read the last 100 or so pages of NextLevel's "TTEdge Executing the shot" thread? It applies as well to penholders as it does to everyone else... Watch some of Brett's videos about not doing the backswing too early? Take some videos and send them to Brett?

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 23 Aug 2017, 11:26 
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Blade: TSP Versal CP
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BH: Yasaka Rakza 9
Im going through those now :-) Wish me luck! :-) Any other suggestions ? Tips ?

Update: LTT 29 seems to be my first focus point. "Chicken"-wing situation extraordinaire :-D

LTT 27 --> is that for that Cross-over FH ? Im good in that area as C-pen forces me to do it naturally.

NextLevel's blog thread is like 159 pages deep ! :swear: it is going to take me all year to go through them !

:lol: Hopefully my FH will improve :-)

_________________
__________________________________________________________
Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-729OEM/729SuperFX
    2. FH/BH-STN
  • 729 Bomb : FH/BH-YRD/T5QS
  • DHS PowerG-9 : FH/BH-729SuperFX
  • Stag Balsa Koto : FH/BH-YRD/YR9
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH-YSD
==========================================================


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PostPosted: 24 Aug 2017, 19:32 
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Blade: Prasidha Premade CPEN
FH: Globe 999 Commercial
BH: Moon
man_iii wrote:
How in HEAVEN does the ball fly horizontally with the low yet extremely spinny return ??


2 words: Chinese Rubber.

I give back very low arc balls, even from almost 88-90 degree strokes to underspin shots from Hurricane 2/3 (obviously will never be as spinny as Ma Lin's shots but I attribute the low arc to Chinese rubber.)


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PostPosted: 25 Aug 2017, 02:23 
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BH: Yasaka Rakza 9
Well I am talking about normal no spin and slight top-spin balls all the way to the loop/counter-loop returns.

I am on a Chinese rubber :lol: Yasaka Shining Dragon to be precise :-) And I do have 729-2 rubbers on a backup of a backup BB7 blade.

Im pretty sure the tack and grip on the rubbers grab the ball enough to go sky-high even from the least power top-spin loops. All I got to do is a slow flick of the wrist and it topspins with the same low arc :-/ How in the world do I swing so hard and get the same low arc ???

I will go to the club and try it out maybe with a lot more closed angle and forward jerking of the shoulder / forearm and maintain the slow wrist action.
    Code:

            SWING                       BRUSH                             DIRECTION
    1.   shoulder + hip                Light brush                   Up on contact
              no forearm                all the way                   Forward on follow-through
              no wrist

    2.   hip + forearm               Medium brush                  Diagonal on contact
              wrist                  only on contact             Up on follow-through
              no shoulder            guide with wrist

    3.   entire body                Heavy brush                    Up before contact
                                   press into the ball            Diagonal contact + follow-through

I am not sure which one will be more successful. Not sure if I am missing out the obvious.

Please send help ! :-D NextLevel's blog post is too deep :lol:
I don't think I can make it out :rofl: no light at the end of the tunnel of 159 pages of posts !!! :rofl:

_________________
__________________________________________________________
Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-729OEM/729SuperFX
    2. FH/BH-STN
  • 729 Bomb : FH/BH-YRD/T5QS
  • DHS PowerG-9 : FH/BH-729SuperFX
  • Stag Balsa Koto : FH/BH-YRD/YR9
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH-YSD
==========================================================


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PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 12:26 
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FH: Sanwei Target National
BH: Yasaka Rakza 9
An update, none of the above options worked.

Near and mid-table, the only way I could be consistent was to use Leg+Hip+Waist to put spin and power into the stroke.

Any use of wrist+forearm resulted in 1st stroke heavy with spin+speed or too much speed. And 2nd stroke always with too much speed and no control.

It didn't matter if I contacted the ball below the table or tried to play early. Any wrist+forearm meant ball went long. Almost no control on the amount of spin+speed.

The only time wrist and forearm had any effect was when actively blocking an opponents heavy loops or loop-drives.


1. Loop with legs+hips+waist whenever near or mid table distance. Faraway distance simply start closing bat angle even more and only on really dead-slow ball try to add wrist or forearm. Shoulder only for Ultimate power+smashes.

2. Blocking requires use of forearm and wrist. Need to exercise/massage the wrist and forearm constantly to keep it mobile and supple. Ending up with rock-hard wrist and forearm doesn't enhance the control needed.

_________________
__________________________________________________________
Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-729OEM/729SuperFX
    2. FH/BH-STN
  • 729 Bomb : FH/BH-YRD/T5QS
  • DHS PowerG-9 : FH/BH-729SuperFX
  • Stag Balsa Koto : FH/BH-YRD/YR9
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH-YSD
==========================================================


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PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017, 09:49 
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BH: Donic Bluefire JP03
If you record yourself side on, i'm sure you would pretty quickly figure out what you are doing wrong...

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PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017, 12:00 
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Blade: TSP Versal CP
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BH: Yasaka Rakza 9
I'll do that this weekend and report back ! Should be interesting :-)

_________________
__________________________________________________________
Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-729OEM/729SuperFX
    2. FH/BH-STN
  • 729 Bomb : FH/BH-YRD/T5QS
  • DHS PowerG-9 : FH/BH-729SuperFX
  • Stag Balsa Koto : FH/BH-YRD/YR9
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH-YSD
==========================================================


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PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 13:16 
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Blade: Stiga Sense 7.6 Penhold
FH: DHS C8 Ox
BH: Hurricane 3 Neo
I have a consistent FH for drive loops, counters, etc. and can vary power/spin (spin less so). Here's just what works for me:

I had some coaching 20 years ago for FH drives that built a good foundation.

(Then stop playing for 20 years :rofl: JK .) Ahem, then I practiced FH loops against the robot. Initially I tried to get it right, power should start from the feet, then the legs, hip, waist, arm, etc. I never dipped my hand too low as I believed it's too slow in a match. (I only play close distance. I do practice mid-distance too.) I have seen Chinese videos that say do what's natural, it's not a biggie.

I wasn't able to loop very consistently against topspin first. Often it felt too fast, and I "hit" the ball in the wrong angle rather than hit+brush. It was like not powerful even if it landed.

Then I switched to practicing mainly looping backspin balls. They are slower. I was able to feel how to brush the ball, and use a bigger motion. Loop kills seemed natural. I also use hard Chinese rubbers. I was able to start looping people's underspins in a game.

Then I started looping against topspins again with robot. Now I got the hang of the right amount of hit vs brush. I loosened up my arm more and only add power when my blade is about to hit. This adds a whip-like effect. It gets more consistent. My motion is not as big as before sometimes. I tended to over-rotate my body when my motion was too big. (Filmed myself practicing).

I still look pretty uptight on video, although I don't feel that way. :) Using some of my waist and a relaxed arm provides enough power.

The Intensity blade I switched to also helped..it's fast with skyline 2, but very controlled.


P.S. noticed you said this "How in the world do I swing so hard and get the same low arc ??? "

Looping against underspins with teach you exactly this. You have to hit into the ball hard (in an upward way with the correct bat/ball angle) and brush at the same time. If you can clear the net then the movement works.

For me, sidestep loop kills from Ma Lin and spinny loops from XX are great examples of seeing the mechanics.

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Long pips blocker/hitter, inverted RPB.

Blog (Ramblings of an ordinary penholder...): viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32694


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2018, 05:37 
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BH: Yasaka Rakza 9
I dint do any video recordings :-P Im too shy I guess.

Following how I have started on the path to "fix" my FH loops / power loops / loop-drives/ loop-kills.


1. I really really needed to go for a Flexi-blade! Most of the Black Balsa I was initially using were too rigid ( top-ply is a glass-fiber composite hard veneer ).

2. Medium-hard rubbers work. Super-soft rubbers work even better. What doesn't work is hard-hard rubbers like H3 ... and surprisingly contrarily H2 works :-S ... I thought H2 is harder+faster than H3.

3. Flexi-blade with hard top-ply is fine, with medium rubbers. Flexi-blade with soft top-ply and soft rubbers feels like you have immense holding power on the ball. Haven't tested this against very-far-distance counter-loops since that is not my strength.

You really need to "feel" the ball catch and stay on the rubber. In-game requires very very quick adaptation to opponent's incoming spin. Medium and soft rubbers tend to react and bottom-out on very powerful incoming spin+speed, so a more soft or nuanced counter-loop is needed. Early attacks are your advantage.

My loop arcs either high-long ... or low-long ... with very soft hands I can even loop arc high-short ... and low-short .... even over the table full horizontal swing loops are magic. Flicks require a lot of confidence but it does work and gets the job done.

A full whip action snapping the entire arm forward and diagonal-up actually works now. It works consistently across all my strokes. I can do 10 continuous loops!!! :clap: :lol:

I can do this FH power-loops with DHS PG-9 + TG2Neo + Palio Thors , as well as Yasaka Battle Balsa + YSDs, training setup was 729 Bomb + Tibhar 5Q sound + 729 OEM BlueSponge.

The real surprise was the PG9 blade which previously I had used to injure myself with TG2Neo+G888 ... and now I don't feel or get any injury related symptoms or problems! Surprise ! Surprise! My arm and body are able to handle the full weight of TG2Neo and Palio Thors on the PG9 !!! :lol: :rofl:

I am well on my journey to get my killer FH loops well into gear. My BH RPB is working as well as it has for a long time.

Next set of problems to address is mostly serve-receive related, and reading service. Beyond that block defense on FH and TPB block on BH .... I don't have much hope of getting there not even in one year's time. :P :lol: :rofl: Again coach ignores me mostly since they don't know how to coach C-pen player :-P I wish they weren't so choosy :-P But I can't really blame National-level coaches for ignoring me :-P ;( :headbang: I am not going to win any matches or medals :lol: :rofl:

_________________
__________________________________________________________
Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-729OEM/729SuperFX
    2. FH/BH-STN
  • 729 Bomb : FH/BH-YRD/T5QS
  • DHS PowerG-9 : FH/BH-729SuperFX
  • Stag Balsa Koto : FH/BH-YRD/YR9
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH-YSD
==========================================================


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2018, 05:53 
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Blade: TSP Versal CP
FH: Sanwei Target National
BH: Yasaka Rakza 9
Ma_Xin wrote:
I have a consistent FH for drive loops, counters, etc. and can vary power/spin (spin less so). Here's just what works for me:

I had some coaching 20 years ago for FH drives that built a good foundation.

(Then stop playing for 20 years :rofl: JK .) Ahem, then I practiced FH loops against the robot. Initially I tried to get it right, power should start from the feet, then the legs, hip, waist, arm, etc. I never dipped my hand too low as I believed it's too slow in a match. (I only play close distance. I do practice mid-distance too.) I have seen Chinese videos that say do what's natural, it's not a biggie.

I wasn't able to loop very consistently against topspin first. Often it felt too fast, and I "hit" the ball in the wrong angle rather than hit+brush. It was like not powerful even if it landed.

Then I switched to practicing mainly looping backspin balls. They are slower. I was able to feel how to brush the ball, and use a bigger motion. Loop kills seemed natural. I also use hard Chinese rubbers. I was able to start looping people's underspins in a game.

Then I started looping against topspins again with robot. Now I got the hang of the right amount of hit vs brush. I loosened up my arm more and only add power when my blade is about to hit. This adds a whip-like effect. It gets more consistent. My motion is not as big as before sometimes. I tended to over-rotate my body when my motion was too big. (Filmed myself practicing).

I still look pretty uptight on video, although I don't feel that way. :) Using some of my waist and a relaxed arm provides enough power.

The Intensity blade I switched to also helped..it's fast with skyline 2, but very controlled.


P.S. noticed you said this "How in the world do I swing so hard and get the same low arc ??? "

Looping against underspins with teach you exactly this. You have to hit into the ball hard (in an upward way with the correct bat/ball angle) and brush at the same time. If you can clear the net then the movement works.

For me, sidestep loop kills from Ma Lin and spinny loops from XX are great examples of seeing the mechanics.


Ahhh the dreaded looping under-spin returns from OX Pips-out players :lol: I had a practice ex-state player who plays modern defense. He quit and joined up somewhere else. Unfortunately looping against under-spin returns teaches about adding tons of power etc ... but it doesn't teach any control of the same said power!

But training against LPers helps a LOT to increase your stamina, endurance, rally ability, better your strategy and tactics.

I am going to find "useless" players who do a "crap" job of blocking for drills, and Im gonna loop the hell outta the ball, hopefully it will increase my movement speed and help me stabilise my extra-power strokes into a consistent rally and at least try to get my timings down for reset-recovery so I can continually loop as much as I want to.

_________________
__________________________________________________________
Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-729OEM/729SuperFX
    2. FH/BH-STN
  • 729 Bomb : FH/BH-YRD/T5QS
  • DHS PowerG-9 : FH/BH-729SuperFX
  • Stag Balsa Koto : FH/BH-YRD/YR9
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH-YSD
==========================================================


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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2018, 05:50 
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Blade: TSP Versal CP
FH: Sanwei Target National
BH: Yasaka Rakza 9
Uggh! :-) I switched to Yasaka Battle Balsa with Rakza7 :-) And I can't believe how FAST the dang Euro rubbers are!!! I am so used to getting controlled-arcs with good amount of dip from Chinese rubbers ...

Rakza7 + Super-light + Super-Flexi balsa blade is too fast for my current level :-) If I am 200% confident to play my FH loop strokes, then the spin and arc and dip on the ball is AMAZING :-)

I realise that Chinese rubbers have been spoiling me with some amount of slowness :lol: Is that good or bad ? I can't feel confident now playing with the softer and faster Euro rubbers anymore :rofl:

Right now,

DHS PG9 + RakzaX + Palio Thors, is working out the best. It is a BEAST. :-)

Stag Balsa Koto + TG2Neo + 729 SuperFX, working really well on the 2-wing looper.

Yasaka Battle Balsa + Rakza7 <----- I am going to swap-out and try the 729 Bomb blade ... I am hoping the higher control on the 729 Bomb will reduce the speed and higher bounce I am getting on the YBB :-P :-D

TSP Versal + 729 Friendship ( OEM ), works really well as a SMASHER blade. Only problem I have is lifting heavy underspin with this as, very puzzling, why the arc is so low.

All the FH strokes are now reasonably powerful. Still need more work on getting the FH flick/flip and also transition from close to mid-table needs still a little more work. I got no problems with pushes or cuts on the FH.

_________________
__________________________________________________________
Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-729OEM/729SuperFX
    2. FH/BH-STN
  • 729 Bomb : FH/BH-YRD/T5QS
  • DHS PowerG-9 : FH/BH-729SuperFX
  • Stag Balsa Koto : FH/BH-YRD/YR9
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH-YSD
==========================================================


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 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2018, 11:40 
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man_iii wrote:
Rakza7 + Super-light + Super-Flexi balsa blade is too fast for my current level :-) If I am 200% confident to play my FH loop strokes, then the spin and arc and dip on the ball is AMAZING :-)


Interesting. I always thought Rakza 7 was slow. I have a sheet, will have to give it a try. Rakza X was NOT too fast (it's gotten too grotty, time to change it out), and it's supposed to be faster than Rakza 7.

I'll betcha it's your blade.

HuLimei wrote:
man_iii wrote:
How in HEAVEN does the ball fly horizontally with the low yet extremely spinny return ??


2 words: Chinese Rubber.

I give back very low arc balls, even from almost 88-90 degree strokes to underspin shots from Hurricane 2/3 (obviously will never be as spinny as Ma Lin's shots but I attribute the low arc to Chinese rubber.)


I don't think this is even possible - it defies the laws of physics. Unless you're talking about backspin, of course. "Low throw" shots and rubbers are low spin.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2018, 13:44 
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iskandar taib wrote:
man_iii wrote:
Rakza7 + Super-light + Super-Flexi balsa blade is too fast for my current level :-) If I am 200% confident to play my FH loop strokes, then the spin and arc and dip on the ball is AMAZING :-)


Interesting. I always thought Rakza 7 was slow. I have a sheet, will have to give it a try. Rakza X was NOT too fast (it's gotten too grotty, time to change it out), and it's supposed to be faster than Rakza 7.

I'll betcha it's your blade.

Iskandar


Yeah Rakza7 is slower than RakzaX ... but RakzaX needs a stiffer blade like the PG9 I have it on right now. Also I think you are correct on the durability. RakzaX will not last as long as Rakza7 does ( I got a friend on my 3-year old Rakza7 on his BH and it still performs similar to my new Rakza7 rubber!)

I tend to have a very wristy FH loop ... :-P So it might be that the extra snap of the wrist is giving more "oomphhfff" to the FH loops. The same action on Chinese rubbers only produces more spin ... and not much in terms of speed. I tend to side-spin loop more ... and only straight-up topspin for very heavy cut returns.

Also I noticed that I have to brush the ball a lot more gentler ... I can't really push into the ball when brushing ... Rakza7 shoots the ball too fast and too high if I get too aggressive ... not so with Chinese rubbers like 729 SuperFX or TG2Neo ...

I will test out the Rakza7 on the YBB on the slower office table. Maybe I can figure out the ideal power+spin+speed balance on the crappy office TT table. :-)

Edit: YBB + Rakza7 on the office table ignores any low-level player spin. Magically the crappy table slows the ball down enough for the extra power in the Rakza7 lands every ball. This DEFINITELY would BLAST OFF on the club or any international TT table.

Also I hit the red rubber on the table and it is now got a gash at the top edge :'( :-P

_________________
__________________________________________________________
Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-729OEM/729SuperFX
    2. FH/BH-STN
  • 729 Bomb : FH/BH-YRD/T5QS
  • DHS PowerG-9 : FH/BH-729SuperFX
  • Stag Balsa Koto : FH/BH-YRD/YR9
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH-YSD
==========================================================


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