OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Interestingly, I found myself playing better with a j-pen square close to table than a c-pen...

Also, round shaped c-pen usually has more vibration than square shaped j-pen.

Kokutaku has a lot of 729 products

For the same blade model?

Btw, how's your rubber search going?

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Viscaria. H2 Neo 2.15. Tenergy 05 1.9.

It took me awhile to get comfortable with the lack of finger hook on Chinese style penhold blades, but now my serves, blocks and short game have all improved in comparison to the J-pen and I found RPB with Jpen too head heavy to be comfortable.

I used to play with a semi-rounded head balsa core Jpen that had no vibration at all. The Butterfly Senkoh-5 and Tenper Speed should also have very little vibration, along with blades with kevlar or arylate.

The Galaxy carbon blades have a balsa core so probably little vibration

Square J-pens tend to be thick 1 ply hinoki (which have little vibration) while round head ones tend to be thinner multi-ply (which have more vibration).

The Korean players Kim Ki Taek (1988 Olympic Silver Medalist) and Hwun Jung Hwa (1985 World Champion) both used rounded head multiply balsa core blades (probably the Senkoh-5) with short pips (probably TSP Spectol). Now Korean pips penhold players seem to be using the Timo Boll Spirit or other composite blades instead.

If you want a round head J-pen in 1 ply hinoki, Nittaku, Juic, Butterfly, Kokutaku, and Darker all make them, though they are sometimes harder to find. Paddle Palace and Iruiru both have some options though.

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-- Andrew

Spintech All Around Penhold blade
Spinlord Keiler II 1.5 black
Nittaku FastArc G1 red

729 all around blade
Tibhar Grass D-Tec S Red
Nittaku FastArc G1 black

Yes, like Andrew said, that's more just because of the differences in blade composition, not because of the blade shape. Also, as evidenced in Andrew's case, while it might feel better at first to play with what you're used to, you would probably be better off down the line if you make the switch. Once you improve your strokes, Cpens just perform better overall for close to the table, especially quick attack.

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Jpen: Galaxy 982 juniper 8mm- Darker Provine Tension-50 2.2 or Tibhar Torpedo Soft 2.2
Shake OFF: Galaxy T8 ST- FH: Darker PT-50 2.2, BH: Juic Varites 1.5
Shake DEF: modified Joo- FH: Reactor Corbor 2.2, BH: Globe 979 1.5

How about Reversibles? I believe there will perform much better than those thick 1ply j-pen. These won't cause head heavy feel.

Nittaku has a few nice ones: Violin, Expert-H and Wolfeed.
Konkutaku also has a laser carbon reversible.

I'm actually quite interested in Expert-H and Wolfeed.

Well, as for c-pen... probably I will try out a few c-pen from my friends for RBH... but hey.. i think it's unlikely for me.

My serves, blocks and control is better on most j-pens vs c-pen which I've tried so far. I would say that my serve and blocks are some of my strong points and I find it a lot easier to execute them with a blade with "hook".

As for rubbers, hey, great info from you guys....
I will probably check out my local store for more info and suggestions

No, different blade model.

Rubbers search still going on. Hope to find more info about the 729, Konkutaku and TSP series listed above.

The problem with the reversibles is that when you make them so much lighter, all of the weight of the racket is towards the head, from the rubbers. Even if the blade doesn't weigh much, the imbalance produces the same feel as a blade that's balanced but too heavy.

They also tend to not have the same power as the thick single ply blades, so it'll probably feel closer to a Cpen anyways. Multi ply blades, regardless of their shape, will vibrate more and won't have the same gears as a single ply. At that point, you might as well just adapt to Cpen or stick with a single sided Jpen if you're not willing to give up the fingerhook and power you get from the blade for RPB.

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Jpen: Galaxy 982 juniper 8mm- Darker Provine Tension-50 2.2 or Tibhar Torpedo Soft 2.2
Shake OFF: Galaxy T8 ST- FH: Darker PT-50 2.2, BH: Juic Varites 1.5
Shake DEF: modified Joo- FH: Reactor Corbor 2.2, BH: Globe 979 1.5

How about a round j-pen?

Any other inputs for rubbers are welcome!

Assuming it's a multi-ply, it will feel just like a Cpen, but you'll lose the flexibility because of the fingerhook. Not worth it, IMO.

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Jpen: Galaxy 982 juniper 8mm- Darker Provine Tension-50 2.2 or Tibhar Torpedo Soft 2.2
Shake OFF: Galaxy T8 ST- FH: Darker PT-50 2.2, BH: Juic Varites 1.5
Shake DEF: modified Joo- FH: Reactor Corbor 2.2, BH: Globe 979 1.5

A round Jpen blade with rubber both sides will balance better and will be much easier to adapt to, though it won't have the advantages of the CPH in terms of wrist flexibility. I know someone who has done so successfully and some of the top Korean players have done so, usually with the Senkoh-5 which has a very short head, shorter than I like, but balances well and has very little vibration due to the thick balsa core.

Some of the top Korean women use modified Chinese penhold blades with a finger hook, like Kwak Bang Bang, usually with short pips on only one side. The Nittaku Rutis-J is an example of this kind of blade, but there are others on the Asian market.

These do tend to be thin (under 6 mm) and are multiply blades so will have a lot more vibration unless you get one with dampening fibers like kevlar or arylate (like the limited edition Timo Boll Spirit Kwak uses).

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-- Andrew

Spintech All Around Penhold blade
Spinlord Keiler II 1.5 black
Nittaku FastArc G1 red

729 all around blade
Tibhar Grass D-Tec S Red
Nittaku FastArc G1 black

To be honest, I don't get what this "wrist flexibility" issue is and what it has to do with the finger hook. But I have not tried Cpen so maybe I just don't know what I'm missing. Although my round Jpen (reversible but I don't actually twiddle it) is severely modified. I can see that without drastic sanding of the blade for the finger, it would be harder to open the blade for RPB. With Cpen you can release the forefinger basically, so you're just holding the blade with the thumb and the middle and ring fingers. Is this the "wrist flexibility" issue or something else?

Btw, Lee Eun Hee, female Korean pro player (Women's #38 in one ranking I saw) is another one who uses Cpen with finger hook. I believe she plays close to the table (like most women players do). She doesn't do RPB though.

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Galaxy K-4/ Xiom Vega Pro/ Xiom Vega Pro

With the Chinese penhold grip you have a lot more options for moving your wrist and adjusting blade angle than with the Japanese or Korean style grip which locks you into one plane of movement.

The tradeoff is that the forehand grip on the J/K paddle is a lot more stable until you get used to the Chinese style grip, which balances the blade between your forefinger, thumb and rear fingers, usually curled.

Yes, Lee Eun Hee also plays with a specially modified Timo Boll Spirit with finger hook. It looks like both she and Kwak Bang Bang use short pips on one side, probably TSP Spectol.

I still have not seen any top players who use a J/K style blade who use RPB, not sure why this is, whether it's simply tradition or if there is some technical reason for it.

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-- Andrew

Spintech All Around Penhold blade
Spinlord Keiler II 1.5 black
Nittaku FastArc G1 red

729 all around blade
Tibhar Grass D-Tec S Red
Nittaku FastArc G1 black

"locked in one plane of movement" is another phrase I don't get. From looking at Jpen players, i don't see them being anymore restricted in movement than the Cpen players.

I think the problem with square Jpen is that it becomes too head heavy with 2 rubbers. So nobody seriously uses them for RPB, or at the top-level this may become a handicap.

Actually I could agree with hobbes that even a twiddler round head jpen (like Violin R-H) could still be head heavy with 2 rubbers. If I didn't glue the wine cork to the side of my handle, I probably won't be able to use H3 because it would be too head heavy. The widened grip has also made the handle more comfortable, more cpen-like in width.

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Galaxy K-4/ Xiom Vega Pro/ Xiom Vega Pro

Try a Chinese penhold blade and grip it as a Chinese penholder would and you'll see a difference between the two in terms of flexibility.

You can't really tell though until you curl the fingers rather than extend and splay them. If you grip a Chinese penhold blade like a Japanese/Korean penholder then you won't see much advantage to it.

The second is probably why there are no square head RPB players, they are also too thick, but I'm still not quite sure why no round head though.

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-- Andrew

Spintech All Around Penhold blade
Spinlord Keiler II 1.5 black
Nittaku FastArc G1 red

729 all around blade
Tibhar Grass D-Tec S Red
Nittaku FastArc G1 black