OOAK Table Tennis Forum

All,

Just started using short pips (802-40 w/30deg sponge) on my penhold forehand. When you forehand drive an underspin ball using your forehand, I know you need to take the ball early (on the rise) but the question I have is what is the proper blade angle? Do I hit it flat or do I open the blade slightly?

Great forum with a lot of knowledgeable folks. Thanks in advance.

Regards,

phsortpip

PS: As you can see by my username, I can't type either!!!!!

Hit one. If it goes in the net, open the bat.

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Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

Thx Hookshot. That is the tried and true method!

I guess there are alot of factors involved, amount of backspin, type of short pip rubber (spinny or non-spinny)...

I'll just whack a few and make adjustments
(While still keeping a compact stroke and elbow close to body)

phsortpip

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BTY Joo Se Hyuk | BTY Tenergy 64 2.1mm | TSP P1R 1mm

Chop til you drop baby!

Hi PH,
Didn't mean to give a smarta$$ answer. When you say flat hit. that does not refer to a vertical blade. It refers to the stroke. A flat hit is going into the ball with out much effort to "Make spin". The Stroke is flat. (almost horizontal) You are using their spin, not making spin. Spin continuation. Change the angle of the bat to correct for how high your return will go. While 802-40 has enough grip to loop, that kinda defeats its advantage of hitting through spin.

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

Ironically, I'm sending one too many long, so if that happens, close the bat?

_________________
Viscaria. H2 Neo 2.15. Tenergy 05 1.9.

That would be the logic but you have to remember, you are counting on their spin (chop) to become your topspin going out. If there is not much spin coming in, you cannot hit as hard or from as low. The more chop comming in, the harder and lower you can hit.

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

no worries. your reply was not taken as an insult!!! Thx for the clarafication on the flat hit. I hope to try it out at the local club soon

phsortpip

Just to reinforce that, I found that hitting too hard was the single biggest error after I started opening my blade enough to get the ball back on the table. It needs to be a quick shot, but doesn't need to be superpowerful against low "nothing" balls.

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-- Andrew

Spintech All Around Penhold blade
Spinlord Keiler II 1.5 black
Nittaku FastArc G1 red

729 all around blade
Tibhar Grass D-Tec S Red
Nittaku FastArc G1 black

Reinforce me, I've been doing this way too much these days. It's the light 'backspin' balls which get me, not too much with the heavy backspin ones as they're pretty obvious to see and plan an attack with.

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Viscaria. H2 Neo 2.15. Tenergy 05 1.9.

Perhaps the original question - how to drive a backspin ball - can be answered in two ways, because "drive" may refer to "smash" (or "hit" or "kill") or to "roll". Anyway, it would be useful to keep in mind that you can do two things.

Hitting against backspin, the ball needs to be high enough - about 1.5 times the height of the net as a rule of thumb. You have to hit it before or on the top of the bounce, blade face (sweet spot) directed at the spot you want the ball to land.
First possible problem: you hit into the net. Cause: the ball had too much backspin, or you made too little speed or were too late.
Second possible problem: you hit over the table. Cause: you lifted the ball by grazing it and/or going up while making contact or your bat was too open. You cannot have hit it too hard if you hit it accurately, because the ball should be going in a straight line and hence land on the table no matter what.
A common mistake is being too late, waiting for the ball to rise; you have to start your stroke when the ball leaves the table coming up. A lot of beginning players don't have their blade-angle right, because they feel uneasy to hit through the ball and try to compensate somehow, mostly by opening the blade or lifting the ball a bit.
Another common mistake is taking too big/wide a swing; you should really start the hit just behind the ball. This mistake is made by pro's, too (I've seen Lee Eun Hee do it frequently), because it is really very difficult to keep controlling your arm when the fight is on - you just naturally want to use your power. A big swing will always lift the ball too much, because you will always swing upwards. Try to keep in mind that playing with pips you must not use power, but precision.

Rolling is done against low bouncing balls or against heavy backspin (from chops or extreme serves). Holding your bat vertically (open) you bring your blade down to about your knee and then very fast up, accelarating towards the ball using your wrist, and going almost straight up (just a slight curve should be there, going backwards first, than forwards after having made contact with the ball, so the ball is "caught" in the hollow of this curve - that is why it is called rolling); you have to graze the back of the ball before it is dropping. Don't follow through too much, but do go deep down; the speed should already be well there when you made contact, so the important part of the stroke is the part before making contact. The resulting trajectory of the ball should NOT be the curve you would make when using inverted, but an almost straight line, over the net, and the ball should have good forward speed.
First possible problem: you roll into the net. Cause: not enough forward speed because you didn't go up fast enough (holding back a bit; that's a common mistake) or not enough lift because you didn't graze the ball well enough (you should really catch the ball).
Second possible problem: you roll the ball over the table. Cause: too much foreward speed because you didn't go straight up, but forwards too much, or you held your bat too open (from fear the ball would drop off; that's a common mistake too).
Third possible problem: you roll a curve and the ball bounces too high on the other half of the table. Cause: you didn't go up fast enough and didn't graze the ball correctly, probably because you held your bat too open.
Beginners tend to roll too slow and with their blade too open. You have to roll with panache, really going for it.

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Without opponent, no match.

Alright, thanks for the handy reminders Kees! I'm currently deciding if I want to refine hit through backspin first before rolling, but sounds like learning to roll properly sounds easier, as I think I'm doing it wrong as you stated.

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Viscaria. H2 Neo 2.15. Tenergy 05 1.9.

Yet another great post by Kees!

PS. Should I tell my SP friend this? Or let him work out so I can win for now ?

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Oh my gawd. I haven't been on here since Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:52am
Stiga NCT Allround Wood : FH Tenergy 05 2.1 BH Bryce Speed 1.9

Nittaku Shellshock : Sriver FX 1.7/Feint Long II 0.5~~Darker 3Mai Gouban : Mark V 1.8/Solcion 1.9
Unused : Tenergy 64 1.9, Flextra 1.7, Micro 2.0, Mambo H 2.0, Mambo H 2.0, Reforma 2.0

Thx Kees and to all who responded.

Learned enough that I was actually able to apply these suggestions!!! Albeit not perfectly in every situation but definitely has put me on the right track. Now to practice, practice, practice....

BTW, I was able to give a couple of higher rated players (1900 and 2100) some close matches; didn't win but put in some respectability for short pip penhold players!
I also believe they didn't play as hard as they could have but at my level, I'll take what I can get (just like with edges and nets)

It really seems like people have forgotten how to play against penhold short pips; one of the higher rated players kept on looping into the net and I was able to keep the ball short.

Regards,

phsortpip

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Main Setup
Stiga Clipper CR CPEN
Forehand: TSP Spectol Blue 1.5mm
Backhand: winning NP-Grass OX

A great and informative post by kees.

Thank you.