OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Ma Te vs Shiono

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A big bag full of blades and long pimples, donuts and coffee!

Wow Shiono was missing a lot of forehands, especially chops. He must have found his FH chop during the tournament. Also, Ma Te was able to lift his BH chops, other than the other no-brainers that tried to smash it through.

Come on guys, a little more optimism please! After several years we have another defender winning a Pro Tour and all we're saying: "oh, the good guys will crush him and they'll learn is game." I'm not saying it can't be the case, but until proven, let's be optimistic and proclaim that optimism. It might even come true. Besides, if that's the attitude of current (supporters of) defenders, then the ITTF already won the battle against us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Pb9A0LhWKk

By the way, all doubts are solved. In this video around 6 seconds you can clarly see it's a feint long III and tenergy. I guess both max

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My Paddle
Blade: Butterfly Defence II FL
FH: Bluegrip V1 2.0 (red)
BH: Grass D.Tecs 1.5 (black)

Yes, but this vid is from 2011, so he might have changed his equipment.

Thats rigth, cause in 2011 tsp didnt have released the p4.
And from some pics taken in the Japan Open looks a lot like p4.

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Victas Koji Matsushita
Thibar Hybrid k1 euro max
TSP Curl p1-r 1.0

i don't think it's p4, the disposition of the pimple at the base seems much more irregular in the photos in japan

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My Paddle
Blade: Butterfly Defence II FL
FH: Bluegrip V1 2.0 (red)
BH: Grass D.Tecs 1.5 (black)

The suspense is killing me !

Our detective work seems to be bringing us in circles.

Their must be a japanese ooaker who can get on japanese TT forums and find out there right?

if you can read japanese and are reading this, Help us please!

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VKM
Tenergy 05 2.1
Feint Long III .5

In those pics look a lot like p4...

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Victas Koji Matsushita
Thibar Hybrid k1 euro max
TSP Curl p1-r 1.0

Our friends over at the pimp my blade forum posted this 2008 japan open video against ma Lin, he won 1 set

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfnz3YMh ... ata_player

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Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

<June 2009>
Matsushita Pro Model ST (Discontinued)
Tenergy64 Thickness Max
Feint Long III Thickness 0.5

<January 2012>
Shibutani Pro Model ST (Discontinued)
Tenergy05 Thickness Max
Feint Long III Thickness 0.5

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6tyNTO7 ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0zkq9Ja3E8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dARovqP9tT0#t=64

Thanks, Bogey - where did you get that info from?

I'm not surprised that he uses a thin sponge. When used properly, it allows to develop massive backspin especially on a slower blade like the one he uses. This also explains why the opponents at Japan Open misread his spin so often. Koji Matsushita, his teacher, also used such a thin sponge (special "Kawa" sponge under his Feint Long II and later III) as is explained in the video below - see first comment for summary/translation:



Shiono's FH loop is much stronger and more prominent than Koji Matsushita's loop. As said in the video, Koji chose for a 1.7-1.9 sponged FH, where Shiono choses Tenergy with max thickness.

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Exclusive OOAK-Interview with Joo Saehyuk | Masato Shiono | Panagiotis Gionis

I am. When I see clips of Matsushita playing attackers, I don't see him creating the amount of backspin Shiono created. Most of his chops were quite harmless compared to e.g. Joo's and Shiono's. I always thought he used such a thin sponge to have a superb control over the attacks sent to him.

If Siono uses such a thin sponge, then it's a true innovation (although not a new one) in the last couple of years where all defenders used at least 1.0mm sponge underneath their pips. It turns my world upside down: more backspin with less sponge??? It's just contradictory of what I experienced myself. It explains Joo's words, though: that a 1.0mm sponge creates more backspin than 1,5. Does OX then even create more backspin than a 0,5 sponge?

Fl3 has a really soft sponge. I think the wood could aid in the reversal and the grip of the pip plus soft sponge could add some significant spin to a chop. I think though with a fast enough motion choppers can create massive backspin with any long pip. I know a chopper who can chop backspin to me off of a backspin push with ox p1r. His strength and motion are so fast it doesn't matter so much what he chops with. He can chop against loop with anything. Shiono seems to have the same rediculous spin on the chop as CWX and JSH.

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-Teddy

I think the spin comes from the right combination of technique and equipment. I recently played with the normally quite harmless (but easy to play with) dawei 388d long pips on an old old nittaku shake defence blade. The result was amazing, enormous amount of backspin on chops. Put the pips on another blade and the pips were nothing special again.

Whatever equipment he is using, it matches perfectly with his style.

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Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence