OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I believe the SF-match isn't posted yet?



And the full match:





From that picture in maximum resolution, I'd say it's Feint Long II rather than Feint Soft. Definitely not Feint Long III or Andro Chaos. FL II would be the same rubber as his master Koji Matsushita used (Koji had a thin 0.5 sponge, I believe). Wonder if Shiono also uses a thinner sponge (0.5 or 1.1)...

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Its not FL2, it have white sponge.... In japonese foruns i read that its FL3
And his racket its defently shibutany pro model, i saw in the semi final video.
And he dont use the japonese uniform because he dont belong to the Japonese team.
He said that he even had to pay the entry fee to play the tournament....

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Victas Koji Matsushita
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I agree.
I watched Masato's match in the finals and also against Koki and it was really weird.
I've never seen players of this level just plain misread the spin on a chop so many times and dump their loops into the net (or hit them long). Normally, against elite level players, choppers have to outlast their opponents because they get so few cheap points...which is of course why the higher the level you reach the more disadvantageous the style is. It looked like his opponents had never played a chopper before.

At any rate, as a budding chopper myself, good to see a chopper winning!

Exactly- if the wrist snap is incorporated effectively into the backhand loop, then a backspin ball is very easy to lift up

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Xiom Zetro Quad
FH: Tibhar 1Q XD
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I tried to zoom in the photos as much as i could... definitely not feint soft, it's the 2 or the 3... i guess the best guess is FLIII now, but i'm still surprised by the way he uses it!

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My Paddle
Blade: Butterfly Defence II FL
FH: Bluegrip V1 2.0 (red)
BH: Grass D.Tecs 1.5 (black)

He clearly resembles Matsushita. Just look at some of his chops: he chops, then he stands still while the ball is travelling to the other side and then he accelerates to get the push that follows.

He also doesn't use a tensor, I think. Or a slow tensor. But his balls of his FH are quite slow to be played with a tensor.

The pip might be a Feint, but isn't the P4 possible?

He screwed up the timing of all his opponents, even the ones who he (probably) trains a lot with. That's clearly deception and it might be something he does with his wrist. If it is, it'll probably be a lot more difficult for the Chinese to read his game. They can read his strategy, but not what he does with his wrist.

It still strikes me he's already in the upper halve of his twenties. Apparently he wasn't as good a couple of years ago, so who might be responsible for his progress? Two guesses: self study (not much chance) or Matsushita/one of Matsushita's students.

I think his victory makes three things clear:
(1) Defensive play is more alive than ever, especially with the current dumb generation of loopers. They couldn't adjust to his game, not even a tiny bit.
(2) The more they suppress the defensive game, the more chances there are an innovative defensive player will come up with an answer and the rest of the TT world will not be prepared to counter it. I compare his level of surprise with that of Joo in 2003 and we all know how that could have ended if he didn't face the experienced-against-defense Schlager who had (and needed) an extraordinary day.
(2) It's the second time now in less than two years Matsushita comes with an innovation: one in the form of a playing surface, one in the form of a player. The guy knows more of defensive play than probably the rest of the TT world, even the Koreans.

@Lorre:
I just think Shiono was close to a perfect tournament, except losing to Ma Te in the qualifications. So in my oppinion he was just playing above his normal level having an incredible run. Otherwise we would have heard from him much earlier. Also, as he was unknown, people were surprised by his game/variations. Though I am surprised, that even the top guys didn't have an answer towards his game.

Honestly I hope that I am wrong (:D) and that Shiono will be able to repeat this. Next tournaments will tell if he is able to.

More videos. I posted them in this thread earlier (in May)
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=22774





If you look at this dudes youtube profile, you'll find a lot more vids of young choppers (probably more of Shiono):
http://www.youtube.com/user/PingPongHimanashi/videos

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I hope you're wrong too.

That surprised me too. At our mortal level i would have expected this but not at top world level. I was also surprised about the level of backspin he got with the Feint 3.

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brokkie

We only have one other player to compare with who also uses the Feint III: Ruwen Filus. He chops more like other choppers. Shiono starts his chops more behind the ball and then go underneath it. This is probably to bend the pips of the Feint III: those are quite hard. His chop resembles more an inverted or SP chop. It's genius if you think about it. I think this kind of chopping comes from Matsushita. Remember the first thing he did when he became president of Victas: he launched a new pip, the P4, a pip that resembles the Feint III.

I think this come from him playing with sp in the past. Also i think that there are 3 other important factors in his chop:
1) He probably uses a 1.3 version of FeintIII (filius's is 1.1) and he varies a lot the chop
2) he chops from veeeery far away and with a realtively slow blade (shibutani should be a slightly stiffer matsushita pro model) so he can really put power in the chop. Slowness of the blade could also be the cause of someone thinking he even doesn't use a tensor on the FH, while it's tenergy it seems.
3) The chops are often high but always on the endline. Did you notice that this often create problems in the attackers? I mean, watch also the matches of Kang Dongsoo, muramatsu and some others. It's appears to be difficult for an attacker to attack very high balls with much backspin (if you think about it, it's obvious: it's easy to smash strong, but very difficult to use your legs and body to raise the ball!)

But i repeat, i think in the semi and the final he faced 2 opponents not really prepared for defenders... while, as i said, niwa lacks power... i'd like to see how it goes against some different guys... damn it, why didn't they film him against chuan and matsudaira!!!
Even if i have to admit, chuan has its up and down with defenders (as he admitted himself) and matsudaira in the past didn't prove to be a beast (clos 4-3 with filus, lost to joo...)

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My Paddle
Blade: Butterfly Defence II FL
FH: Bluegrip V1 2.0 (red)
BH: Grass D.Tecs 1.5 (black)

I guess only time will tell whether Masato is the new paradigm for choppers...whether he has developed a style of chopping that is going to turn the tables on attackers...or whether he will come back down to earth as another solid chopper on the international scene.

I guess we will have a better idea if we see him compete against some of the big name players in Europe, Asia and especially China.

One suspects, however, it was a combination of Masato playing the tournament of his life and also coming up against some players not ready to play against the chopping game. As much as I would like to believe otherwise, I doubt we will be seeing Masato cutting a swathe through the next world championships - forcing players like Timo, Samsonov, Ryu, Ma Long and Jhang Jike to dump loops into the net in confusion.

He's playing in the U.S. Open in about a week.

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Unfortunately it's unlikely he will meet too many big name international stars there.