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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2022, 08:20 
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ROM ( run of the mill ) .Being a ROM blocker I was able to win a tourney and get to the semifinal on two occasions and many more times to the quarter final , now I have decided to become a chopper as I realised no pip close to the table will make me progress further - due to my technique and the poor performance of the current pips for close to the table blocking .Do not be fooled by the hype of the manufacturers - for example, the new Premium Spinlord Leviathan - with the current regulations and the crappy ball, close to the table blocking with pips is getting weaker and weaker.

I have no coach but time to make the effort and try to see if this route is more successful.To achieve my goal I will have to improve my stance, my poor footwork and my non existing looping .

I attach pics of my set up . Difficult route with Victas Curl P1 V in 1.0 and 0.5.The idea is to manipulate the spin a lot rather than put many balls on the table that can be attacked easily with a soft sponge .That's why I turned down FL 3 and P4 where consistency can be achieved much more easily .

The video is just about the typical drill to get the technique right .I just uploaded a little bit.I can do the drill non stop for 20 minutes straight or more .On some occasions I know I do the drill wrong but after some adjustements I seem to do it better and better.With P1V the number of training sessions must be increased a lot but I am sure the hard work will yield results sooner or later.

https://youtu.be/uCuiGi9moE0


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2022, 09:20 
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My own view is that with the heaviness and un-spinniness of the new plastic ball, BOTH long pips blockers AND long pips choppers are at a disadvantage. The problem is that we can't generate as much backspin as we used to be able to generate, which means attackers can loop-drive forward instead of looping up, which means the ball is coming at us faster. In that way, the plastic ball that was meant to slow down the game has, instead, created a game that is bunch of cho'ing bozos smacking the ball back and forth at each other as hard as possible. (I exaggerate, but that's the general idea.) Because of the manner in which the game has changed, I think the best approach for defenders is to combine defense with unpredictable attacks. I find that that's easy to do when you're blocking at the table than when you're chopping far away, but maybe that's just my personal opinion. There are certainly great chopper-attackers, but you need really amazing footwork to make that style work. But good luck on your journey. Keep us posted.

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2022, 10:04 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
My own view is that with the heaviness and un-spinniness of the new plastic ball, BOTH long pips blockers AND long pips choppers are at a disadvantage. The problem is that we can't generate as much backspin as we used to be able to generate, which means attackers can loop-drive forward instead of looping up, which means the ball is coming at us faster. In that way, the plastic ball that was meant to slow down the game has, instead, created a game that is bunch of cho'ing bozos smacking the ball back and forth at each other as hard as possible. (I exaggerate, but that's the general idea.) Because of the manner in which the game has changed, I think the best approach for defenders is to combine defense with unpredictable attacks. I find that that's easy to do when you're blocking at the table than when you're chopping far away, but maybe that's just my personal opinion. There are certainly great chopper-attackers, but you need really amazing footwork to make that style work. But good luck on your journey. Keep us posted.


Bahaha... I think that about sums it up.

Defense MIGHT help you get farther along, but you need to be quick... fit... enduring... AND STILL have a big attack for the most part. I have seen some 'unicorn' choppers, that is, they play extremely passive even at 2300+ usatt ratings. Super rare though.

I've actually swapped to staying at the table and blocking, working in more and more FH attacks as tradesman alluded to -- reason being, my FH is the weapon anyway, and I can utilize it better at the table instead of having to fish/chop then come charging in like JSH to loop a weak ball.

Charmander's plan may or may not assist him, though I think he is GREATLY underappreciating just how good defenders need to be above a certain level. In skill, or fitness, or a combination of the two. One can help overcome the other, if developed to a high enough degree.

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2022, 14:44 
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It's as Skilless_Slapper said,a big forehand attack is essential along with the pips skills.

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2022, 16:51 
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Great that you have such a clear plan for this! I think you can get far with spin manipulation, that is far more difficult for opponents to adapt to than just pure back spin. But I wonder if you will be able to disguise and change spin enough with that rubber... What blade will you be using?

If it does not work for you, you could give short pimple a try. Or Feint 3/P4 (I know you just said about them). When I tried sp chopping not long ago I realized you can win many points from just pushing over the table with sp, and making different spins. That is the big pro's with those rubber. The con's is that you need to handle the first attacks with a more fast and grippy rubber - not easy. And returning serves is harder. I really enjoyed using sp and I may return there later...

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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2022, 20:31 
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I have viewed a video from the strongest rated male defender in my country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJv4TjjPcRA

What did he noticed that with 40+ balls defenders have to return balls earlier and closer then before. But it become somewhat easier with diminishing of incoming topspin then before. Returning mainly low relatively flat chops with occasional hidden underspin ones is the key to success. It is impossible to win with constant strong underspin anymore.


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2022, 22:38 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
My own view is that with the heaviness and un-spinniness of the new plastic ball, BOTH long pips blockers AND long pips choppers are at a disadvantage. The problem is that we can't generate as much backspin as we used to be able to generate, which means attackers can loop-drive forward instead of looping up, which means the ball is coming at us faster. In that way, the plastic ball that was meant to slow down the game has, instead, created a game that is bunch of cho'ing bozos smacking the ball back and forth at each other as hard as possible. (I exaggerate, but that's the general idea.) Because of the manner in which the game has changed, I think the best approach for defenders is to combine defense with unpredictable attacks. I find that that's easy to do when you're blocking at the table than when you're chopping far away, but maybe that's just my personal opinion. There are certainly great chopper-attackers, but you need really amazing footwork to make that style work. But good luck on your journey. Keep us posted.


I absolutely agree with you 200%.Let's see if I am fit enough to be successful with this style.In my view,chopping away from the table and counterattacking with inverted on both fh and bh has an advantage . You have much more time to react if you are in the right position at the right time . Anyhow, we need to combine defense and offense with this plastic ball , be it near or way from the table.


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2022, 22:49 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
TraditionalTradesman wrote:
My own view is that with the heaviness and un-spinniness of the new plastic ball, BOTH long pips blockers AND long pips choppers are at a disadvantage. The problem is that we can't generate as much backspin as we used to be able to generate, which means attackers can loop-drive forward instead of looping up, which means the ball is coming at us faster. In that way, the plastic ball that was meant to slow down the game has, instead, created a game that is bunch of cho'ing bozos smacking the ball back and forth at each other as hard as possible. (I exaggerate, but that's the general idea.) Because of the manner in which the game has changed, I think the best approach for defenders is to combine defense with unpredictable attacks. I find that that's easy to do when you're blocking at the table than when you're chopping far away, but maybe that's just my personal opinion. There are certainly great chopper-attackers, but you need really amazing footwork to make that style work. But good luck on your journey. Keep us posted.


Bahaha... I think that about sums it up.

Defense MIGHT help you get farther along, but you need to be quick... fit... enduring... AND STILL have a big attack for the most part. I have seen some 'unicorn' choppers, that is, they play extremely passive even at 2300+ usatt ratings. Super rare though.

I've actually swapped to staying at the table and blocking, working in more and more FH attacks as tradesman alluded to -- reason being, my FH is the weapon anyway, and I can utilize it better at the table instead of having to fish/chop then come charging in like JSH to loop a weak ball.

Charmander's plan may or may not assist him, though I think he is GREATLY underappreciating just how good defenders need to be above a certain level. In skill, or fitness, or a combination of the two. One can help overcome the other, if developed to a high enough degree.


I also agree with you 200% but my intention is never to underappreciate how good defenders need to be above a certain level.In fact, this is my challenge!! .Let me tell you I am watching videos every day where the famous choppers show their skill. I set the speed in slow motion and then, I try to replicate everything im my training sessions .Also, with this crappy ball I chose the most difficult route- not an easy pip to get consistency fast but not dangerous enough for the opponent.I think there is a consensus that P1V is one of the pips that loopers don't like to play against.This is our mission : to make loopers have a bad time just as they enjoy smashing the ball at us :lol:


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2022, 23:00 
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Def-attack wrote:
Great that you have such a clear plan for this! I think you can get far with spin manipulation, that is far more difficult for opponents to adapt to than just pure back spin. But I wonder if you will be able to disguise and change spin enough with that rubber... What blade will you be using?

If it does not work for you, you could give short pimple a try. Or Feint 3/P4 (I know you just said about them). When I tried sp chopping not long ago I realized you can win many points from just pushing over the table with sp, and making different spins. That is the big pro's with those rubber. The con's is that you need to handle the first attacks with a more fast and grippy rubber - not easy. And returning serves is harder. I really enjoyed using sp and I may return there later...


Thank you so much ! I will be using Naraq Defender pro:Naraq is a Spanish manufacturer based in Granada.It is a very balanced blade both for chopping and offensive strokes .You can find info here :
https://vsport-tt.com/en/table-tennis-b ... t_straight

Yes, In fact I have FL3 in 0.5 as a backup.Also , I will be testing Yinhe Qing in 0.5 and 0.7.If after some months I see this route is not ok for me , i will try the SP strategy as you mentioned .Thank you very much .


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PostPosted: 11 Mar 2022, 23:05 
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Omut wrote:
I have viewed a video from the strongest rated male defender in my country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJv4TjjPcRA

What did he noticed that with 40+ balls defenders have to return balls earlier and closer then before. But it become somewhat easier with diminishing of incoming topspin then before. Returning mainly low relatively flat chops with occasional hidden underspin ones is the key to success. It is impossible to win with constant strong underspin anymore.


Thanks , Omut.You are very right.That's the idea : to mix flat chops with hidden undespin ones.Even on pushes over the table you can send topspin or backspin but one needs to learn to use the wrist properly.
You can notice this when you set the speed of the video in low motion.You can really see the skill of the chopper at that precise time.At a normal speed you cannot really notice these subtle tricks ,which are key in this type of strategy


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PostPosted: 12 Mar 2022, 01:34 
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It seems the only thing we can do with the pips is to try and change the little spin on the ball.At the table you block with less spin too.Hence,a good FH is the key for any defender at a high level.Pure passive defence either blocking or chopping is a thing of the past The superblock era is gone forever The celluloid ball is also gone for good.Defenfers have to change the style and must have a combination of attack and defense,what they call the modern defender .It might be possible regulations can change to benefit defenders, however,I only envision this scenario when too many top defenders start to disappear forever and when the TT manufacturers complain to the ITTF for the huge losses in their businesses


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PostPosted: 12 Mar 2022, 08:08 
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I'm not sure what the swap really solves. If you were able to block at the table well enough, and weren't being overpowered there... then chopping will become much the same.

It's very doubtful to beat good players with 'spin variation' alone. You'll still need to capitalize on the weak returns -- which means, you guessed it, a good attack! Now the only difference is your setups will come from chops instead of blocks. Meaning you'll be running a ton more, having to go in and out, in and out... in addition to setting up the forehand attack and executing. You'll need to develop a fish/chop on the FH away from the table. Your BH will need to function at several distances also.

I'm not putting down the style, just trying to depict what I've seen and experienced from being a chopper and a blocker.

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PostPosted: 12 Mar 2022, 16:30 
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Fully agree with S_S :) I know you are quite fit CharDef but this change is going to be far more physically demanding than being a ROM Blocker. Also re-tuning your brain and muscle memory to playing strokes away from the table as a chopper could be very challenging (not to mention time consuming) even with your determined efforts and training I am sure you will be putting in. Good luck and hope things work out for you on your new journey. :up:


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PostPosted: 12 Mar 2022, 22:41 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
I'm not sure what the swap really solves. If you were able to block at the table well enough, and weren't being overpowered there... then chopping will become much the same.

It's very doubtful to beat good players with 'spin variation' alone. You'll still need to capitalize on the weak returns -- which means, you guessed it, a good attack! Now the only difference is your setups will come from chops instead of blocks. Meaning you'll be running a ton more, having to go in and out, in and out... in addition to setting up the forehand attack and executing. You'll need to develop a fish/chop on the FH away from the table. Your BH will need to function at several distances also.

I'm not putting down the style, just trying to depict what I've seen and experienced from being a chopper and a blocker.


Yes , you've just depicted my plan .It is a more complicated strategy,yes,,...at the levels I have been playing this season,I think chopping is a better alternative.Also, I got tired of my Dg getting broken so soon .I have started from scratch since mid December.Let's see if I was right in my decision.However, I can get back to the blocking style at any time .

Both you, TD and DA are very right in your observations.You are very kind . :)


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PostPosted: 12 Mar 2022, 22:59 
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TTbuddy wrote:
Fully agree with S_S :) I know you are quite fit CharDef but this change is going to be far more physically demanding than being a ROM Blocker. Also re-tuning your brain and muscle memory to playing strokes away from the table as a chopper could be very challenging (not to mention time consuming) even with your determined efforts and training I am sure you will be putting in. Good luck and hope things work out for you on your new journey. :up:


Yes it really is far more physically demanding!!! I like to finish the training session very tired :) .
In my view , I am those old cases of the 70s when doctors still didn't diagnose the cases of hyperactive children.I think I was an undiagnosed case of hyperactivity.

Thank God or whatever you wanna call it I am very fit in my 50s and my idea is to continue like this for a long time.Never smoked, drunk,or drugs .I am free to decide.Those ( even intelligent people ) who do drugs etc have lost one of the most important values in life : their freedom.Never will I be a slave to drugs,drinking,smoking.

I also think retuning the brain - especially the older we get - is a smart decision .Yes, I realised my frustration of the first month .It is being very challenging but I will be successful, sooner or later.

Thank you for being so polite to me . :)


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