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PostPosted: 09 May 2011, 13:28 
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I have just found a video on Deng Yaping's LP BH.
My Mandarin is limited and I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT LONG PIPS. I know there are lots of LP experts on this forum. Can you help answer some questions I have? Also see why her BH was unique and effective?



Her BH shots are fast and with excellent placement!
Her LP does not look that "deceptive". Did she give up "deception" for speed and power?
Would her BH be as effective if she were to use SP or MP or even inverted?
Is her BH rubber still legal?
Did I miss anything?
Thanks. :)


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PostPosted: 09 May 2011, 14:21 
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Didn't she use 755 with sponge? Not sure if it's still the same.

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PostPosted: 09 May 2011, 14:43 
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shaolinTT wrote:
Did I miss anything?

38mm ball

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PostPosted: 09 May 2011, 15:00 
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So her style is more effective with the 38mm ball?

I am surprised to see she has a few different BH strokes. Be patient and watch the whole video. When the Chinese words appear at the bottom right corner, it indicates a new stroke or tactic.

The match against Wang Nan is a nice one too.


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PostPosted: 09 May 2011, 15:14 
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The 755 rubber that she used was designed for the 38mm ball. I've heard several people say it's not as good with the 40mm ball. I'm sure you can study the style and use the strokes with a rubber made for the big ball. I'd imagine something like Feint AG would be good. But try the 755 first since the price is right to see if you like it.

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PostPosted: 09 May 2011, 16:39 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
The 755 rubber that she used was designed for the 38mm ball. I've heard several people say it's not as good with the 40mm ball. I'm sure you can study the style and use the strokes with a rubber made for the big ball. I'd imagine something like Feint AG would be good. But try the 755 first since the price is right to see if you like it.


I had tried to imitate Deng's style when I was training with Grace Lin. The main problem was the 40mm ball will destroy a sheet of 755 in less than half an hour trying to punch-block like her... Too much trouble to find a long pips that could withstand the punishment, and I had tried many of them. Also with the 40mm ball, the fast blocks done Deng's style tend to slow down a lot more after reaching their height, thus becoming easy targets for continued strong loopdrives from my opponents. Feint AG does not work very well in this regard either and it's expensive and not durable.
Medium pips are a lot more effective to imitate her style in the 40mm ball era, imho...


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PostPosted: 10 May 2011, 10:57 
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mikie tasei and galia dvorak are current players who play similar to deng yaping.(both are on youtube/google video)

Both reportedly use feint soft 1.5 so that might mean something with the 40.

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PostPosted: 10 May 2011, 17:38 
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shaolinTT wrote:
I have just found a video on Deng Yaping's LP BH.
My Mandarin is limited and I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT LONG PIPS. I know there are lots of LP experts on this forum. Can you help answer some questions I have? Also see why her BH was unique and effective?

Her BH shots are fast and with excellent placement!
Her LP does not look that "deceptive". Did she give up "deception" for speed and power?
Would her BH be as effective if she were to use SP or MP or even inverted?
Is her BH rubber still legal?
Did I miss anything?
Thanks. :)


I am jixiaolan reborn :lol: . OK, I forgot mypass word, and was unable to remember the email address given. Thus I register as this seems the only way out.

I am not a LP player, but watching the video clip, I do agree that Deng focused more on speed and power as expressed by the narrator. I have done a translation for the narration of the clip. It is not a complete translation, but near to it. A few words of the narrator were "overwhelmed" by back ground music or unclear due to her tone. Wonder if it serves you any purpose?

Translation:
Analysis of Backhand technique
Deng’s BH technique is unique. There is breakthrough and innovative in her BH play. She is able to flick/push , attack, and even chop in defense, using BH LP. As she chops or attacks, employing short and long ball combining with the swift change of rhythm, she creates opportunities to gain points. She is able to execute BH quick flick/push with great speed and in varied direction. As she attacks or quick flicks the ball, she dares to hit the ball (using LP) with force/power, and at time of ascension or at peak of incoming ball trajectory.
How fast she hits the ball depends on the hitting of the inverted rubber(of opponent?) But she returned ball faster (than inverted), sinking and floating. When the opponent plays short, she pushes back, resulting in short yet non-spin return. Thus causes opponent to reluctantly returns a high ball, allowing her to attack in either wing easily. In rally, she favors the tactics of ? or a simple block.
Her set up comprises of inverted on one side and LP on another. She is capable to attack with LP, not a defensive player , rather an outstanding of FH and BH attacker. For example, she often follows up with a BH LP attacks after a long powerful serve. In her game, FH and BH attacks are frequently utilized. She would hit with power, continuously, to opponent’s central line and uncovered FH(opponent’s) areas. Repeating BH flick is also one of her favorite techniques during the rally. LP player usually chops return an incoming looping ball. Deng, rather, employs quick flick to counter the looping with BH LP attack. Look, immediately after looping back with FH, she continuously pushed return with great speed. As opponent succumbed to return a high ball, she closed the point with a BH smashed.

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PostPosted: 11 May 2011, 07:47 
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Thanks for the translation jxl II. I am sure you are now more spinny, faster, and with more control than jxl I!
:)


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PostPosted: 11 May 2011, 09:51 
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jixiaolan kc wrote:
LP player usually chops return an incoming looping ball. Deng, rather, employs quick flick to counter the looping with BH LP attack.


This is the stroke I have been practicing with the robot, however, it is a lot easier to do this stroke with the robot than with a live practice partner. It may be a problem of positioning for me; when my practice partner starts to loop, my immediate reaction/tendency is to back up and chop. Even if I was close to the table, it is more easier, for me, to chop block/block than punching or flicking the ball as Deng did.

Sometimes, having too many options may not be a good ting. :)


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PostPosted: 11 May 2011, 14:30 
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shaolinTT wrote:
Thanks for the translation jxl II. I am sure you are now more spinny, faster, and with more control than jxl I!
:)

Oh, now getting older a little more, and due to the finger injury more than a year ago, I found myself to be less devastating - slower, less power and more clumsy |( :|
tatlwai wrote:
jixiaolan kc wrote:
LP player usually chops return an incoming looping ball. Deng, rather, employs quick flick to counter the looping with BH LP attack.


This is the stroke I have been practicing with the robot, however, it is a lot easier to do this stroke with the robot than with a live practice partner. It may be a problem of positioning for me; when my practice partner starts to loop, my immediate reaction/tendency is to back up and chop. Even if I was close to the table, it is more easier, for me, to chop block/block than punching or flicking the ball as Deng did.

Sometimes, having too many options may not be a good ting. :)


I believe you are the TT lion among the older. :clap:

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PostPosted: 12 May 2011, 08:37 
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I've been told by a veteran tournament player here in the USA that on BH strokes where she appears to be reaching around the side of the ball, what she's actually doing is deliberately contacting the ball on its polar axis of spin (the spin being a topspin loop) so that the actual point of contact has very little rotational velocity to interact with her pips. Thus, most of the opponent's spin is returned to them, Deng's stroke having simply redirected the spinning ball..

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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2013, 00:28 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
I've heard several people say (that 755 is) not as good with the 40mm ball.

roundrobin wrote:
Also with the 40mm ball, the fast blocks done Deng's style tend to slow down a lot more after reaching their height

roundrobin wrote:
Medium pips are a lot more effective to imitate her style in the 40mm ball era, imho...


Bump.
Would anyone like to talk about this some more?

Here is my non-expert analysis:
I see radical flat-hitting with more compact strokes than e.g. Ai Fukuhara.
I don't see much paddle speed up or down, and also I think the stroke that looks like it has big sidespin often doesn't, really. I think it's often just incidental to the geometry of her arm as she's reaching. (The ball is gone before most of that follow-through goes sideways.) She just doesn't brush much; if she is brushing it's to expose fresh pips, not because the 755 is going to spin the ball heavily, right?

It looks as though Deng Yaping wanted more immunity to spin than e.g. Ai Fukuhara because she wanted to flat hit straight through the ball more often, and by using a harder, more rigid and heavier blade than e.g. Ai Fukuhara she got more speed with less backswing (which is easy to see, as it can be seen with He Zhiwen, as I pointed out before, and as I can feel with my own Mazunov) because, more than most players, she needed a hard hit at full extension with minimum time for a backswing. (A much taller but slower person could use this too!)

By the way, as with He Zhiwen, I don't think I see the different-colored plies of a PF4-032. Must it be an 08, then?
(Edit after watching some video frame-by-frame: No, I think it is neither. I don't think it is 7mm thick, and I think the sound is wrong.)

The original poster asked "Her LP does not look that "deceptive". Did she give up "deception" for speed and power?"
My non-expert answer, just looking at her playing personality, is that she used LP on backhand to get the most speed and quickness with a swing that was as short (quick) as possible, compared to, for example, Ai Fukuhara, or compared to anybody with inverted. Then, she executed with awesome accuracy. I'm glad I'm a non-expert so I can say this: it looks pretty simple. :-)

How about this analogy, which I might apply myself with regard to my own answer to the question of "how much immunity to spin is enough:
Many players at my level, with super spinny inverted, like to apply the excess spin for its own sake, in my opinion underrating or forgetting the function of (top)spin in enabling a harder shot; that excess spin alone is just not especially scary to me anymore.
Similarly, maybe some people thinking about different pips start to think in terms of tripping up the opponent (and yes that sounds interesting), but I'm offering the idea that one could think of less friction or longer pips primarily in terms of their offensive properties, and if you don't think they're scary I can show you Deng Yaping.

Oh, I'm supposed to be mowing my grass now... :-)


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PostPosted: 10 Jul 2013, 11:10 
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haggisv wrote:
Didn't she use 755 with sponge? Not sure if it's still the same.

It isn't
tOD


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PostPosted: 10 Jul 2013, 11:46 
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Mmm..., would you please tell us what the difference is?
I would guess that the sponge was firmer in the past.


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