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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2019, 23:09 
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Darth Pips
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https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/Features/2019/March/12/How-To-Beat-Long-Pimples

Some major over-simplifications here. I don't know that he's ever played a really good long pips player who knows how to vary their shots, based on this video. ;)

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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2019, 23:14 
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It's probably targeted at lower level players who are afraid of pips in general, so having at least few things to try is not bad. Their opponents are likely not great pips players either. In the end, though, no amount of videos is going to replace actual experience of playing against pips. For instance, quite a few mistakes my opponents make are not caused by spin confusion, instead it's trouble reading trajectory and/or adjust their stroke timing. Translation - they miss the ball completely way too often.

Full disclosure: did not watch the video :)

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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 03:47 
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Good point. There is also the difference between knowing what you're supposed to do, and actually having the skill to do it.

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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 12:55 
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I don't suppose ANY video would help you beat Gionis... :lol:

Here's the video, by the way.

"..some tactics to beat these very.. annoying.. long.. pimple.. players." :lol: :lol: :lol:



pgpg's guess about the content is spot-on. It's aimed at lower level players who are frustrated playing against equally low level players who use long pips. He doesn't go into the theory of spin reversal much, and assumes the long pips player hasn't developed a bump attack.

Here's another video in the same vein:



I think the problem with this one is that to implement his instructions, you need some higher level looping skills. Not everyone can consistently produce slow loops.

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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 18:31 
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These tips-n-tricks could be effective, but there are so many variables not considered in this tutorial ...


First-n-foremost - Just as he recommends that the inverted players practice these tip-n-tricks, it has to be considered, that even the LP player is aware of these, and is practicing, on how to play against these very tips-n-tricks...

Apart from technique, and strategy, I've observed that, when playing, especially against LP players, equally important, are - Focus, , Consistency, and Patience, and even proper timing ... ONLY players who have the right combination of the above, have any chance against proficient LP players...

I could go on .. I consider myself a LP beginner, at best, but countering most of these tips is usually not a big deal, even for a LP novice like myself...These pointers, are rudimentary, at best ... They'd help, but only to some extent...

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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 22:27 
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I'm always surprised that as a part of coaching programs that there isn't more emphasis put on playing against other styles. Obviously at first if you're training a new player, you want to get their strokes to be solid and consistent in rallies against other inverted rubbers. But at the point where they've advanced beyond the basics of keeping an inverted rally going, I think it would make sense to bring in a good long pips player who is willing to do drills with the developing player. I've done this a few times with some of the younger players at our club and it at least gives them an idea of what's happening when I use the pips, so they've encountered it prior to reaching the level of playing a decent pips player in a tournament. I realize that doing this is a bit of giving away "our" secrets as LP players, but I'm happy to help any player develop. We do have one young boy at the club, I'd guess maybe 8-10 years old, who is learning to be a chopper. It's the style he chose because he liked it, and he is coming along very well.

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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2019, 22:36 
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dwruck wrote:
I'm always surprised that as a part of coaching programs that there isn't more emphasis put on playing against other styles. Obviously at first if you're training a new player, you want to get their strokes to be solid and consistent in rallies against other inverted rubbers. But at the point where they've advanced beyond the basics of keeping an inverted rally going, I think it would make sense to bring in a good long pips player who is willing to do drills with the developing player. I've done this a few times with some of the younger players at our club and it at least gives them an idea of what's happening when I use the pips, so they've encountered it prior to reaching the level of playing a decent pips player in a tournament. I realize that doing this is a bit of giving away "our" secrets as LP players, but I'm happy to help any player develop. We do have one young boy at the club, I'd guess maybe 8-10 years old, who is learning to be a chopper. It's the style he chose because he liked it, and he is coming along very well.


Well, 95% of their (up and coming juniors) opponents are double inverted players, so pips are considered mostly a nuisance as they pass through midrange of ratings (1400-2000 USATT). Once they are above that, not a lot of pips players in their path. Occasional proper chopper, but these are different from blocking types you see early on, I think.

But yes, helping juniors (and everyone else for that matter) to improve against pips is a good thing.

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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2019, 18:43 
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Think about it. Who gets bamboozled by long pips? Lower rated players. Anyone above, say, 1800 has figured out all the basics covered in the videos already. They do get beaten by the better long pips players because long pips players that are that good are more consistent, plus they have a good attack of their own. The ones that frustrate the lower-rated players are similarly low-rated long pips players, the ones they encounter at clubs or in the lower ratings events at tournaments. It's frustrating to play against these people because the ball doesn't behave as you'd expect it to behave. Your pushes pop up or go long, your drives go into the net or go long. It's doubly frustrating because these players don't SEEM all that good - they're inconsistent, they tend to push high and often miss the table. When THEY play against other long pips players, the long pips fool THEM just as much as it fools others. Lower rated players take up long pips for two reasons: 1) they think it'd be fun to fool people into making bad shots by using equipment most players at their level aren't familiar playing against, and 2) to cover up weaknesses, in particular, during serve return. The first part works great until you get to opponents of a certain level - more or less 1800 or so - and then it quits being effective because these better players have figured out what to do and how to play against these rubbers. To beat them, it's not so simple - they have to, in turn, get better and more consistent themselves and learn more advanced techniques, while improving their own attacks.

Where I play, in the last year or so four out of the six or seven regulars switched to long pips. The effect? Everyone has become very cautious and conservative (though it hasn't dawned on some of them that it doesn't pay to use their ultra-screwy sidespin serves against long pips, especially if you're playing doubles..). No more risky attacks of low balls. Not that people were attacking much before, either - I was the only one who'd attempt to loop back pushes, for instance. On the bright side, however, everyone's gotten used to playing against long pips - no one consistently flubs push returns any more, for instance. The long pips players have gotten better at it, one has actually developed a pretty good bump attack, but they're still quite inconsistent. THEY often pop up pushes.

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