OOAK Table Tennis Forum

ok, maybe its me being mad caus I use mids but I was wondering

long pips are used a lot, they can reverse spin, and some can produce some spin

short pips are used, they can produce that spin and a good few can produce spin reversal

BUT, mid pips are rare imo. Untill I saw Half long I have never seen or played against mid pips in my life, ok, I havent actully played against short pips before But I know what to do against them

Mid pips are handy, they can giv spin (atm, Im working on a chop from a few paces back using the pips are it is very useful) and they can get rid of the spin as wel as long pips. hell, if your crazy and stupid enough you coul kill with them (well, maybe not, perhaps thats too much)

so what gets me is its hard tofind mid pips, ive only seen 2 on teh market (diament and half long) and I never hear people talk about them

so tell me oh wise forum goers. what is up with mid pips? and why aint they used much?

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aka Craig

Set Up: Neubauer Firewall with Stiga Calibra LT Sound and Hallmark Half-long
2010-11 Season Singles - played 9: 6-3 | 2010-11 Season Doubles - Played 2: 1-1

I think it might be because most people who use pips fall into two camps: those who want spin reversal/tricky effects, and those who want to neutralize spin and attack by hitting with the pips. In most cases, from what I understand, the medium pips don't give you enough effect for the tricky shots, nor are they fast enough for the hitters. From what I've read, they're o.k. for both, but don't really stand out in either category, so they don't affect a lot of players in a way that would give them any trouble.

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"Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try."
USATT Rating: 1984
Blade: LKT Instinct-Plus, FH: Juic 999 Turbo 2.0 mm Red BH: Giant Dragon Dragon Talon OX
Just For Fun: LKT Toxic 3, FH: Air Illumina Black 1.8 mm BH: Xiying 979 OX

Yes I agree with that, as they say: "Jack of all trades, master of none"

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i started playing with med pips a short time ago and with some time u can loop flat hit and chop block of a underspin ball and all of with was e-z to do and the control is great i can put ball any where i want. and u can go topspin to topspin with no change. im useing pecekeeper with 2.0

Miao Miao uses medium pips and Trent Carter (occasional Australian team member) did for a long time before he switch to short pips. I recently played a guy from Shanghai who used medium pips (PH close-to-the-table blocker/attacker) and was pretty handy.

Given that some top choppers use short pips and many use long pips, you would think that medium pips would be a good idea for choppers/modern defenders. Perhaps there are some around that I don't know of?

Medium pips have some limitations as compared to long pips-they do not provide tricky reversal that the guys using frictionless long pips get from rubbers like Dtec's or Talon, nor will Medium pips provide the heavy under spin "rip chop" that Feint Long 3 or Curl PR-1 or PR -4 have.

For a short pips type game, it is very difficult to produce a top spin drive shot that does not just sit there waiting to be eaten by a powerful looper or crunched by a flat hitter. Counters and blocks are very dead so you must remain close to the table to be effective percentage wise. Yes you can flick away bad pushes very well with Medium pips, but as you rise in rating, these will be less and less.

If you have not read the short treatise on pips in the equipment section, it might illuminate you further...

Ian

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Blade: Juic Yi Yong Fan Extra: FH: Juic 999 Elite (red) 2.2 BH: Friendship 802-40 (black) 1.8
Blade: Giant Dragon Kris: FH: Friengship 729 Judo (red) 2.0 BH: Feint Long 3 (black) 1.3
Blade: Alfa Pro : FH: Friendship Judo (red) 2.0 BH Friendship 563 (black) 1.5
Blade: Yasaka Cougar: FH Juic 999 Elite 2.0 (black) BH: Friendship 837 (red) 1.0

You can chop very heavy with both short (eg HOU Yingchao) and long pips so I don't see any reason why you can't chop heavy with medium pips. I have briefly tried it and found it quite nice for chopping heavy.

Also, 'tricky reversal' is only relevant against inexperienced players up to a certain level. There is the 2 colour rule now.

Well as someone that it moving to pips from a life long all round game with inverted here's what I've found so far with the pro's a cons of each rubber.

Long pips, you can have slippery deceptive pips or grippy chopping pips or anything inbetween. Imho deceptive wobbly pips ex frictionless types don't work above a certain level and it's not something I'm looking at because I need to make it to a higher level that they work at.

Grippy long pips, so far I've tried Dawei 388D1 in .5mm sponge and I can chop well with this.. What I have found though is that it's very bad at the table blocking and also bad with long range blocking, it does get heaps of backspin against loops but I felt like I was reaching the limits of the rubbers spin within a few minutes of using it, there's a point in chopping speed where the rubber stops making more spin and it's at a very low arm speed compared to what I can do already as a pips beginner. So I really need more than .5mm of sponge. I can't see this rubber making a high potential spin without at least 1.2mm of sponge. On the other hand .5mm makes _enough_ spin against loop to be effective against loopers my level its just not going to be enough against very good players, I can see that already so I can't see the point in adjusting to not much sponge when I should be using more sponge.

Medium pips in a thicker sponge so far seem to make also _enough_ spin against loop, obviously block and hit and generally do everything else better than LP.

From what I can see so far I'm going to need something like Dawei 388D-1 in 1 - 1.2mm to be able to realise my chopping dreams or a medium pip in 1.2 - 1.5mm or even more sponge which will give me more options and a more variable game (it is important to me to be able to change my game a lot depending on the opponent). It also comes down to how much deception you need. I only need just enough to setup my forehand and medium pips easily does that.

I also haven't ruled out short pips just yet but so far medium seems like the best bet .

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TG3 / 802

Yes, Hou Yingchao and Ding Song use(d) short pips. Short pips have some bite to them and some are tacky/grippy. Medium pips scrub the spin off, but can only modestly add the spin back on because they "give." The fact that there are no world class men using medium pips points to this (although Liang Ge Liang said he once used a "long pips" rubber that today would be classified as a medium type pips). I highly question whether a medium pip can give the same type of rip chop like Feint Long 3 or TSP Curl PR-1 (or 4). you can get a driving type chop but it will not have the same viscious under spin because the pips can not bend. This is ok until you run into a 2200+ looper who finds that your modestly spun chop actually helps him on the table-Oh happy day! The only way to vary your spin is to twiddle which might be effective for a player like Filus. I realize that Ai Fukuhara uses them to defend but I am not sure she faces the fast loops that you find in the men's game.

Agree on the reversal-rarely see this with nationaly ranked players, and I have yet to see it with the advent of 2 color rule.


For offense your only choice of attacking shot is flat hit against any player who has decent attacking strokes. I have tried hitting top spin drives with my backhand to find as I described-a screaming fast loop coming at me or a smash. The plus of medium pips for me is if I can land that flat hit on the table my opponent has problems because it: 1) has a very flat trajectory, 2) is very dead, 3) is traveling at a very good clip ( I smack 'em in hard).

For my game, I need the top spin drive stroke to keep my percentages in the acceptable range. I was so impressed with Miao Miao's game I built a copy of her paddle and play with it-she uses medium pips on the back hand side (and short pips on the forehand). I am a huge proponent of medium pips, but there are certain things that I dont think it does very well.

Ian

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Blade: Juic Yi Yong Fan Extra: FH: Juic 999 Elite (red) 2.2 BH: Friendship 802-40 (black) 1.8
Blade: Giant Dragon Kris: FH: Friengship 729 Judo (red) 2.0 BH: Feint Long 3 (black) 1.3
Blade: Alfa Pro : FH: Friendship Judo (red) 2.0 BH Friendship 563 (black) 1.5
Blade: Yasaka Cougar: FH Juic 999 Elite 2.0 (black) BH: Friendship 837 (red) 1.0

Guys, the answer here is straight forward-

Long pips pass through more of the incoming spin, so the looper is contributing a lot more to the final underspin rotation speed. Short pips do not pass on this incoming spin to nearly the same degree, but are heaps better at creating underspin if the looper didn't give you much. (They are also better for surprise attacking at the table).

Meduim pips are- surprise, in the middle. They don't pass on as much spin as long pips, but they can create more underspin on lower spin balls (ie fast serves).

Yes, medium pips can return a ball with just as much underspin as either long or short pips. (More than long pips but less than short pips against flater hits.)

If a looper really winds up the topspin to try and out-spin you (ie your chop goes high/long), it takes more technique to deal with this the grippier the pips. (ie long pips- easy, eat-your-own-spin-baby, medium- hit down more on the back of the ball, short- lots of skill hitting down on the back of the ball, inverted- I've seen a chopper hold his inverted bat at a slight forward angle with a gentle chop down/back, so the extreme topspin grips his rubber and flings the ball back on the table for him.)

I personally liked chopping with TSP Millitall 1.0mm (medium pip), because you could generate huge underspin from nothing, without needing the higher skills of short pip chopping.

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Tachi
Hexer HD 2.1
Grass Dtecs OX

Amelie Solja's fh : Diamant
Li Qian bh: 563 1.5 mm

I have found MP to do poorly what LP do well with absolutely no advantages for my style of play. I find playing against MP is a big advantage for me-it just gives me meat balls to attack.

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After 9 years of LPs on BH I have gained too much weight and slowed down too much to be a chopper. I have gone to double inverted!

729 HS champ carbon Sword Maze FH/Juic Nanospin II BH (both max)
Double Fish Chen Qi carbon Sword Maze FH/Tenergy 80 BH (both max)

I think that medium pips should not be judged by their abilities to generate or reverse spins because that is not what they are made for. If you want to reverse the spin play with LP and if you want to be able to generate some spin play a grippy SP. MP are good at flat hitting and blocking through or against heavy topspin or underspin generating a disturbing sink effect while doing this. Thus MPs should be used aggresively for a more attacking style of play and not so much for chopping or defending. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.

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Material:
Stiga Intensity Carbon NCT, FH: Tenergy 05 2.1, BH: Neubauer ABS 1.2

The problem with medium pips is if you are moved off the table -you're pretty much dead meat-lobbing or fishing almost impossible-chopping is ineffective once you reach 2200-since those players are aware of how to adjust to the modest spin... unless you twiddle. ...

This might provide a very interesting game if the med pips player can use both effectively and execute all strokes with both rubbers...I attempt this with my Alpha pro-model. My problem is my inverted backhand chop is a weak shot. If I can land this shot on the table and twiddle effectively, I am a very perplexing opponent, but too often..I am the perplexed....

Ian

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Blade: Juic Yi Yong Fan Extra: FH: Juic 999 Elite (red) 2.2 BH: Friendship 802-40 (black) 1.8
Blade: Giant Dragon Kris: FH: Friengship 729 Judo (red) 2.0 BH: Feint Long 3 (black) 1.3
Blade: Alfa Pro : FH: Friendship Judo (red) 2.0 BH Friendship 563 (black) 1.5
Blade: Yasaka Cougar: FH Juic 999 Elite 2.0 (black) BH: Friendship 837 (red) 1.0

With good chopping & a medium pip (on sponge), you'll get far more than "modest" spin. Seriously.

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Tachi
Hexer HD 2.1
Grass Dtecs OX