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 Post subject: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2012, 08:59 
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We all will agree that medium pips does not have as many "gears" as inverted, long pips, or short pips. This does not make it a bad rubber choice; it means that the player must provide some creativity when using it and combining it with another rubber (probably inverted).

So this topic is how to win points with medium pips out? This thread is a starter for strategies for medium pips players. I am going to share some of mine:

When I serve:

1) Pendallum serve with heavy chop side served long. Normally I would take this return with my forehand and loop because I am expecting a push return, but an effective strategy is to float to the center of the table and take this ball with my backhand medium pips. We all know that medium pips excels at hitting through push returns. If the ball is backhand looped then we have quick jab block waiting or a smash if the loop is too slow.

2) Use the topspin backhand pendallum serve short which should be return with topspin to your forehand. Kill this return with your medium pips (now on your forehand :devil: )

When I return:

1) Take the bait. Some times I will purposely push into a forehand loop especially a slow spinny one. This is a perfect set up to kill that loop when it comes over. Some times I will twiddle my paddle and push with inverted; this is a usually a point winner since my opponent is expecting a modestly spinning ball-surprise! I ripped an inverted chop which will usually be pushed into a backhand loop or killed with the now medium pips out forehand.

2) Some times a player will try to wear your modestly spun returns out. Twiddle your paddle and give him (or her) and very spinny loop or chop; if the ball is put to my forehand (where my medium pips are now) I kill this ball with pips. Even if I miss, I have served notice that I will attack with my pips-where ever they are. Usually, my spinny push is dumped into the bottom of the net.


What strategies doe anyone else use? For me, medium pips requires twiddling to keep up spin variety. The gears that medium pips provide are excellent-most notably "the sink" and "dead ball."
There is nothing wrong with this rubber that a little player twiddling cant cure!

Ian

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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2012, 23:20 
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Great idea for a topic. I have not ideas but will follow this thread closely. I tired MP a number of years ago in OX and did not figure them out. Now that I am a LP w sponge player I may need to give them another look-especially as I am learning to attack w LP and as I get older and can't run all over the place chopping like a madman.


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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2012, 06:28 
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IMO, Attack with attacking long pips is much different than attacking with medium pips:

Attacking long pips blade angle against push about here: \ (maybe too far open)

(with attacking long pips the sponge will be thinner which will make the ball sink into the blade faster resulting in a very flat return)


Attacking blade angle with medium pips about here:|

(the sponge of 1.5 will work on a number of blade and is pretty forgiving)


With attacking long pips against topspin probably the punch block-the pips distort and have little grip and even though you cover the ball there maybe some chop (under spin) on the ball.

*(with defending type long pips this ball should be chopped).


With medium pips the pip start to distort but then firm-the topspin is scrubbed off the ball and a modest amount of topspin is added.

With short pips the pips would not distort but would bite the ball whereas the medium pips would kinda ... uhm... gum the ball (the difference is kind of like being bitten by a Pit Bull or a Labrador Retriever (yeah the Lab has teeth but not much bite)

Ian

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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2015, 21:12 
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Surprisingly no one has contributed to this thread after Feb. 2012. So, I decided to say something about backhand medium pimple play and medium pips strategy. I tried medium pips several times, but I went back to inverted because I thought I lost some opportunities to play speedy shots and thus the tempo of my game. However, I decided finally to stick with medium pips since I was able to use them quite effectively and beat some players I could not beat with inverted rubbers on my backhand. I found out that, although I have lost some opportunities to play speedy shots with some spin, medium pips offer me a good challenge that prompts me to try a variety of shots while maintaining my speed to a great degree.

I have focused on three major ways of using my backhand with medium pips. Attacking with flat,dead and sinking balls, blocking with low, flat and wobble balls and creating random spin. So far, I have tried several medium pips, especially RICT 563-11.8, RICT 563 Mystery,1.8, Dawei 388C-1,1.8 and Palio WP 1013,1.8. They are all good and effective rubbers. 563-1 and 563 Mystery and Dawei 388C-1 rubbers are more controllable and easier to roll, block and attack. However, apart from these strokes, Dawei 388C-1 offers more opportunities to create random and a variety of spin. This rubber can make loopers very frustrated enabling you to play amazingly effective shots they will find very difficult to return. Palio WP 1013 is not easy to control because of its hard sponge. However, it is quite deceptive if you can use it effectively. To roll and attack, you must have a more open angle and your strokes should be more upwards. If you get the right shot, you will see a dead and sinking ball.

The most difficult shot to play against with medium pips is long and high returns coming towards your backhand corner. I have not found any effective way of dealing with these returns yet. Is chopping the only way of dealing with this shot?

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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2015, 21:26 
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not many gears?
u can do all, chop, attack, block, push etc..

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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2015, 21:52 
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Najay wrote:
Surprisingly no one has contributed to this thread after Feb. 2012. So, I decided to say something about backhand medium pimple play and medium pips strategy. I tried medium pips several times, but I went back to inverted because I thought I lost some opportunities to play speedy shots and thus the tempo of my game. However, I decided finally to stick with medium pips since I was able to use them quite effectively and beat some players I could not beat with inverted rubbers on my backhand. I found out that, although I have lost some opportunities to play speedy shots with some spin, medium pips offer me a good challenge that prompts me to try a variety of shots while maintaining my speed to a great degree.

I have focused on three major ways of using my backhand with medium pips. Attacking with flat,dead and sinking balls, blocking with low, flat and wobble balls and creating random spin. So far, I have tried several medium pips, especially RICT 563-11.8, RICT 563 Mystery,1.8, Dawei 388C-1,1.8 and Palio WP 1013,1.8. They are all good and effective rubbers. 563-1 and 563 Mystery and Dawei 388C-1 rubbers are more controllable and easier to roll, block and attack. However, apart from these strokes, Dawei 388C-1 offers more opportunities to create random and a variety of spin. This rubber can make loopers very frustrated enabling you to play amazingly effective shots they will find very difficult to return. Palio WP 1013 is not easy to control because of its hard sponge. However, it is quite deceptive if you can use it effectively. To roll and attack, you must have a more open angle and your strokes should be more upwards. If you get the right shot, you will see a dead and sinking ball.

The most difficult shot to play against with medium pips is long and high returns coming towards your backhand corner. I have not found any effective way of dealing with these returns yet. Is chopping the only way of dealing with this shot?

Thanks! Yesterday I played for the first time (if I do not count a few sessions 6 years ago when I was all new to pips) a whole session wit Palio WP. I have been using LP on BH for more than 5 years as a modern defender with a little weight on attack. 5 months ago I changed to SP and the last 3 months I have been using Spectol, but mostly for pushing and blocking, sometimes for chopping.
I found WP very good close to the table. Like you said, not easy because of the hard sponge. But I mostly played matches so no real time for practicing strokes with it yet.
That situation you azked abot leaves you 4 choises at least: wait til the ball drops and chop it, hit it like a smash with pips, twiddle and hit it with invrted, or just slowly grace it (chop it almost) over hhe table to opponents body or very short. That last shot can you see Hou Yingchao do a lot on drop shots the he won't dare to attack with BH.

I will figure out my own main strategies with MP later.

It seems you like Dawei MP the best? What sponges (hardness, thickness) have you tried? How is it compared to Palio WP? Have you tried TSP Millitall?

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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 17 Apr 2015, 23:55 
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Thanks, garbol and Def-attack for your responses.

Yes, I like Dawei 388C-1 because it is easy to use and it enables you to play a variety of shots. It is my major weapon against people who try to loop every ball. However, I would like to use 563-1 or 563 Mystery against players who might have different strokes. So, I like all three rubbers and I use them according to playing styles of my opponents.

I have been using 388C-1 with 1.8 mm sponge. This can be bought from eacheng with 1.0, 1.2, 1.5, 1.8 and 2.0. I have not tried TSP millitall yet. I must find out whether it suits my style of play first. I have been reading what other players said about it because I have some interest in it.

I even like Palio WP 1013 because it has medium pip qualities. As I have indicated, it can be more deceptive than the other three rubbers, if you can play a bit differently.

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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2015, 00:10 
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My experience with MPs is pretty limited, since I've only tried the one I'm using now, Lion Rebirth with 0.6 mm Goldway sponge. However I have no problems with high balls to my backhand with this. It's actually one of the reasons I tried MPs over LPs, to broaden my range of possible shots. Such high balls I can just smash quite accurately with a whip-like stroke, the same as I would with an LP. It's just that with an MP there's a much gentler margin of error, meaning the hit percentage goes up :)

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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 18 Apr 2015, 21:57 
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Knorben, thanks for sharing your experience with us.

You are from long pips to medium Pips, so you feel that it is easier to deal with long balls with medium pips. As we all know, it is more difficult to deal with these shots with long pips. However, I am from inverted rubbers to medium pips, so I naturally feel that it is more difficult to deal with these long strokes running towards my backhand corner with medium pips. With inverted rubbers, you can move away from the table and attack these long balls. Even though people say that medium pip player must play close to the table, I strongly believe that even with medium pips you can move a bit away from the table and attack these high returns. The other day, I tried to play this way with some success. What you have to do is to focus on the ball and attack it upwards and forward with open angle of the bat. As you have suggested, a whip-like shot would be another very good way of attacking these high balls. Actually, it is one of strokes which I have been working on.

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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2015, 00:40 
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From watching Fukuhara Ai and Ito Mima play, they rarely push and use the medium pips to drive or block to the corners from over the table. I tried this briefly (using Friendship 563) but gave it up. It was forcing me to stand close to the table and aside from flubbing a lot of shots on the backhand it also made me play way too much on the backhand than I normally do. It also messed with my forehand shots. I suppose you have to be a lot quicker than I am to play like this, and you have to commit to it long term - someone used to playing with inverted on the backhand will see a huge drop in level of play at least for a couple weeks (and that's being optimistic!). It's a huge adjustment.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 19 Apr 2015, 03:16 
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Najay wrote:
Knorben, thanks for sharing your experience with us.

You are from long pips to medium Pips, so you feel that it is easier to deal with long balls with medium pips. As we all know, it is more difficult to deal with these shots with long pips. However, I am from inverted rubbers to medium pips, so I naturally feel that it is more difficult to deal with these long strokes running towards my backhand corner with medium pips. With inverted rubbers, you can move away from the table and attack these long balls. Even though people say that medium pip player must play close to the table, I strongly believe that even with medium pips you can move a bit away from the table and attack these high returns. The other day, I tried to play this way with some success. What you have to do is to focus on the ball and attack it upwards and forward with open angle of the bat. As you have suggested, a whip-like shot would be another very good way of attacking these high balls. Actually, it is one of strokes which I have been working on.


Ahah, I didn't think of it like that! Of course it'll be a completely different story coming from inverted :) Personally I find that if I'm away from the table I would rather chop than attack with my MPs - however that's naturally very dependent on the rubber. Some MPs chop quite well (Lion Rebirth can make nasty back spins) and some don't.

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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2015, 16:30 
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Hi Guys,
I have been using 563 Mystery occasionally in practice. I struggle returning backspin. Should I drive these balls? If I push them what blade angle should I use? How open?

Bulldog.

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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2015, 17:15 
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Bulldog wrote:
Hi Guys,
I have been using 563 Mystery occasionally in practice. I struggle returning backspin. Should I drive these balls? If I push them what blade angle should I use? How open?

Bulldog.


You hold uour bat almost completely opend (vertical) and kind of scoop the ball over. You can use some wrist but not much. Find the right angle of the bat for different amount of spin. Pushing can be a good option to break the rythm, but rolling is bette with MP. If you often ush opponent will learn and attack easily. If you roll you gives the spin back and if the serve contains sidespin the returned ball from you will curve in an odd way :-). Don't attack/roll it too hard though. Begin with just placing the ball on the table loosely, then test other versions.

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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2015, 01:05 
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Thanks Def-attack, that is really useful.I will struggle to roll the ball. I have always found that shot difficult.

Bulldog.

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 Post subject: Re: Medium Pips Strategy
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2015, 04:23 
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Bulldog wrote:
Thanks Def-attack, that is really useful.I will struggle to roll the ball. I have always found that shot difficult.

Bulldog.

The key is not to do it too fast/hard.

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