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 Post subject: TSP Millitall II Review
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2008, 14:03 
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Well, I've had this rubber for a few weeks now so I thought I'd go ahead and put up a review :wink: I'd estimate about 8 hours playing time with it so far. Several disclaimers: I would consider myself to be in the beginner/intermediate level of the game as far as playing skill/consistency. However, I do study the game in depth and I try to temper my lack of experience with advice/input from better players; this review was compiled accordingly...

Physical Appearance: This sheet has the markings of a typical TSP pip: excellent quality, deep red topsheet, cleanly finished. The Millitall's pips are of medium length, it's actually very similiar in appearcance to P1-R. If you take the pips on the P1-R and shrink them down and then arrange them vertically, you'll have a pretty good idea of what to expect. The tops of the pips are also textured in the same way as P1-R's are. Compared to the Pimplemini the pips seem a little smaller (thinner at least...) and are packed together a little more closely. The pips feel soft and are fairly flexible for being so short. It feels decently grippy, but the softness allows a lot more grip with a firmer touch. The sponge is marked at 1.0~1.3 and is a creamy yellow--very smooth and soft.

Pushing: Millitall offers quite a few options when facing underspin. Pushes felt very easy to control and were quite spinny when I wanted them to be. It has a somewhat deadish feel similiar to P1-R, and that combined with the extra grip means you need to be carefull when facing heavier underspin or else you'll net the ball. That said, I found it extremely easy to vary from no-spin to fairly heavy spin against everything but the heaviest of pushes. Against a very heavy push, I was--with a light touch--able to see a little reversal which only added to my opponents confusion. Compared to long pips I felt the control was better in just about every way. Compared to short pips, pushes were not quite as spinny, but the addition of slightly more spin reversal seemed to help more than it hurt.

Hitting: Hitting against chop felt very controllable and was quite consistent. It was much easier for me to attack with than the typical long pips rubber. Compared to short pips the control was just as good if not better, but the speed obviously was lacking. It has a soft feel when looping underspin, but the thin sponge does bring the blade into action pretty quickly if you let the ball sink in. One thing I noticed was that it seemed to continue some of the sidespin when looping a sidespinny chop/push, and that gave the ball the occassional odd bounce which was a nice little bonus :)

Blocking/Countering: Blocks were slow due to the soft sponge and the P1-R-like feel, but there is a ton of control over placement. I could see some reversal on high-spin loops, but on anything less than that, it gave a no-spin. I was surprised at how effectively I was able to counter hit topspin though...This shot makes for a great change of pace. Against light to medium-light topspin, I was able to counter fairly aggresively with just enough topspin to keep the ball down. Against medium to medium-heavy, my counter was a slower, low, no-spin shot. Against heavy topspin, the Millitall gave a low skidding no-spin ball with maybe a trace of reversal on it. Basically, the higher the spin got, the more care I had to take because the reversal would start to kick in. Overall, it lacks the speed for a real offensive game, but when used as a change of pace in a defensive setting it is very effective.

Chopping: well, this is the part of the review that always makes or breaks a rubber for me...At this stage I believe the Millitall is a very effective chopping rubber. As I was hoping, it chops better than any of the short pips I've tried, BUT it's still a little beyond my skill for chopping high-level spinny loops.

Here's what it's good at.>> Control and variance of spin felt fantastic. I was able to produce a very wide range of spins, but still maintained enough reversal to give a heavy chop when needed. With short pips I could create the same variations, but sometimes struggled to produce a consistent heavy chop. The Millitall however, seemed chop as heavily as Cloud and Fog3 against all but the spinniest of loops. With long pips I often struggled with that first chop or push...it seemed like I just couldn't get enough underspin on it to prevent my opponent from power-looping the ball into oblivion. With the Millitall I was able to create a low spinny chop against both no-spin, push, and topspin which forced my opponent to slow loop the ball. This is exactly the position that I want to be in, but it is also where the weaknesses of this rubber start to show (no free lunch).

So, I got that slow, high-arcing spinny loop and attempt to chop it but found that the Millitall bites a lot against the topspin and it became very difficult to keep low or even on the table sometimes. I feel confident this is due to my lack of experience chopping this type of loop, and can be corrected with practice, but I just wanted to point out that this rubber, in every way, requires active strokes, and correct technique.

Final Thoughts: Overall, I was amazed at the versatility of this rubber. Out of all the medium-length pips I've tried, this one best strikes the balace between spin generation and reversal, truly combining the best of both worlds in many apects of the game. It's main weakness lies in it's proclivity towards giving its user too many options which may cause some hesitation. Because it's not as strong defensively as long pips nor as strong offensively as short pips, it is critical to attempt to take advantage of both aspects of Millitall, otherwise you'd be better off just using long or short.

I would say this pip would best suit a player who mostly defends and chops on the backhand side, but frequently changes the pace with awkward counterhits and blocks. I feel this rubber really encourages proper technique and active strokes which is why I want continue to learn using it. As far as I know this is the only review of the Millitall... it'd be nice to hear what some higher level players think, but from what I can tell it seems like a winner for me! :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2008, 14:24 
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Wow awesome review JSK, very comprehensive!

The slow spinny loop is hard to chop with long pimples too... The best options IMO are to either get in earlier and block it with a chop-block (with a fairly closed bat face), or to simply try and chop it a little earlier before it starts to drop too steep. Your chopping action also needs to be a little faster, to overcome the rotational speed of the spinning ball (as pointed out so well by Kees' article on defenders).

The fact that the sponge feels slow and dead like the P-1r is great...and I was hoping that was the case when i saw the low stats for speed.

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PostPosted: 12 Mar 2008, 18:54 
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Haggisv, why chop these early? Hitting fast and soft (as needed for slow high spin loops) is really hard.

I struggle with these shots too (of course), but have been presuming if I let the ball drop a little further I'm in less danger of hitting it long. Sadly this usually creates a mild "lob" ball flight with me out of position close to the table.

BTW, thanks for the review JooSeKev. Any observations on the differences between MilliTall and PimpleMini ?

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PostPosted: 12 Mar 2008, 19:32 
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Shoebox9 wrote:
Haggisv, why chop these early? Hitting fast and soft (as needed for slow high spin loops) is really hard.

I struggle with these shots too (of course), but have been presuming if I let the ball drop a little further I'm in less danger of hitting it long. Sadly this usually creates a mild "lob" ball flight with me out of position close to the table.

BTW, thanks for the review JooSeKev. Any observations on the differences between MilliTall and PimpleMini ?


I chop them early because the ball has more forwards momentum early...the later you chop, the more vertical the path becomes (due to the heavy spin making it drop), and it becomes harder to get it onto the table (and low).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 13 Mar 2008, 02:12 
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haggisv wrote:

I chop them early because the ball has more forwards momentum early...the later you chop, the more vertical the path becomes (due to the heavy spin making it drop), and it becomes harder to get it onto the table (and low).


Thanks for the tip! I will definitely give this a try because my thoughts had been to try to take the ball later (let some of the spin wear off) and then adjust my stroke to a little more horizontal to match the harsher angle the ball drops at.

@shoebox, I didn't get to try pimplemini as extensively as I wanted to, but from what I remember, I would venture to say that Millitall is spinnier than pimplemini. There was something about the feel of the Pimplemini that I just didn't like, especially when countering topspin. The Millitall however, just feels 'right' to me...I guess it's more of a subjective issue (as all reviews are)...

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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2008, 13:05 
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UPDATE:

I finally had a chance to have a hit with this rubber against my usual training partner who has been unavailable for the past few weeks. He grew up in China and went to a table tennis school so he has impeccable technique and knows a ton of great drills. Why he decided to come to school here in Arkansas I'll never know :shock:

Anyway, I felt a little better about the control when chopping this time. Although choppnig is one of my favorite parts of the game, ironicallly, I'd also consider it one of the weakest points in my defense. I've been training with him for the past two years. Usually when chopping with my short pips set-up (799), I'd only win the point by having him eventually loop one too long. I could give a pretty deceptive float, but I struggled getting the chop heavy enough for him to net the ball. With long pips it was the opposite, I'd only win the point through him netting the ball.

With the pimplemini however, I noticed an almost equal percentage of shots that went too long as shots that went into the net. The best part is...I was actually able to control which one occured! This is a step up for me.

Because of the grippiness, the control on faster, spinnier loops still felt less forgiving than long pips. For now I've been dealing with the super-spinny slow loop that I described above by counter-hitting it to their backhand. Because the loop is slower, it's easier to adjust the racket angle to compensate for the spin. This has been fairly effective so far, usally giving me a shot that I can either attack with the forehand, or start chopping again with the backhand.

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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2008, 13:23 
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Joo Se Kev wrote:
UPDATE:

The best part is...I was actually able to control which one occured! This is a step up for me.



Congrat. That IS a BIG step. All good choppers can do this...now it's time to play with big boys. Any other 2000-2200s in your area to test?

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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2008, 14:50 
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not that I know of! I won the singles intramural championship at my school if that gives you an idea of the playing level around here... I did recently discover a club within an hours drive, but I'm not sure if they have any 2000 level players. I'll have to check back again because it's a small club. I had a great time the one night I've been there and it seems like a great club, but the best player I saw that night I'd estimate to be around 1800.

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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2008, 16:54 
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Agreed, congrats are in order. I can't do any of the above with my b/h yet. I can only chop faster or slower, and it is (or at least should be) fairly obvious.

BTW, how did you find the MillTall for attacking/flipping underspin? (Don't know if you do this much- I love trying it, especially on serves.) So far in my travels the Guillotine seemed best at this, but that 1.2 tensor is out of my league when returning hard/fast loops.

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PostPosted: 16 Mar 2008, 02:43 
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Thanks for the congrats guys. Mind you, I wouldn't say I'm match ready with this skill yet, I'm still too inconsistent. The 3 different chops I'm working on right now are the float, heavy underspin, and heavy under/sidespin (think Hou yingchao). At my level, mastering these 3 variations will go a LONG way.

Shoebox, As you know I've been using short pips for a while now. Flipping underspin serves and short pushes is not something I do a lot of in matches yet, but in practice I work on it a lot. Short pips are excellent for this, and I've found Millitall to feel quite similiar--I basically use the same stroke as I was using with short pips and the control is just as good. The Millitall is slower, with a softer feel. I don't win as many points outright as I did with short pips... Millitall makes up for that in some respects by reversing a little bit more, including passing through sidespin if there was enough on the ball. From what I remember, it shouldn't be that different from the Pimplemini you tried: great control and consistency but rather slow...

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PostPosted: 16 Mar 2008, 09:18 
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Joo Se Kev wrote:
Thanks for the congrats guys. Mind you, I wouldn't say I'm match ready with this skill yet, I'm still too inconsistent. The 3 different chops I'm working on right now are the float, heavy underspin, and heavy under/sidespin (think Hou yingchao). At my level, mastering these 3 variations will go a LONG way.


Sounds like you're making great progress JSK, well done!

The way I think about these 3 strokes is basically the faster you chop the ball in the direction of way the ball is spinning, the more spin you'll return. So chopping a pure topspin ball with a fast downwards action, will produce the maximum backspin (and also the best control IMO).

Chopping down slower than the ball is swinging will take off spin. Similarly chopping sideways will reduce the amount of backspin returned, but adds a dangerous amount of side spin...

You might know this already, but I thought I'd point it out as it always helps me visualise what I'm trying to do...

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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2008, 03:54 
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When I'm trying to float the ball, I visualize something almost between a chop-block and a full chop. Compared to my heavy chop I keep the backswing and follow-through the same (or maybe try to exaggerate it a little for effect), but I close the bat angle a little and move the chop across a more horizontal plane. This let's the ball dig into the grippy pips which really kills the spin, but by closing the angle of the bat a little I can still keep it low.

My next project to work on is changing between the height of the chop. I'm pretty sure I heard this one from Bogeyhunter, but if you can switch between deep, high spinny chops, and deep, low floaters, it will be very hard for your opponent to keep looping because it goes against natural instincts. A high ball makes you want to hit more forward and down, but if if has a ton of backspin, it'll go into the net. A low ball is begging to be lifted, but if it has no-spin, then it will likely go long, or at least be easily attacked.

So much to think about!

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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2008, 04:17 
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I'm interested about "sound".

Do both, heavy and float, have the same sound?

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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2008, 05:49 
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good question. I assume they'll probably sound different because my no-spin chops sink into the sponge and contact the blade whereas my heavy chop mostly grazes the ball. I'll have to get back to you on that one...

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2008, 20:49 
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Thanks to Joo Se Kev's review :evil:, I've caved in, and got a TSP Millitall II and put it onto my bat... I left the Leggy on the other side for a quick comparison...

The Millitall sponge is quite a bit firmer than the Leggy, but then again the Leggy sponge is VERY soft. The Millitall sponge still feels fairly soft...

Bouncing a ball on it, the Millitall feels a little faster and more bouncy than the Leggy, but not a lot...

It is interesting when you run your fingers over the Millitall, it actually does not feel that grippy at all, definitely lower than the Leggy. Dig it in a little and the they feel similar. Spinning a ball and then bouncing it on the pips made both of them bounce sideway, could not really tell which one bounced further. Both took off virtually all the spin... but you get some reversal on lighter contact...

It worried me a little that the Millitall did not feel that grippy, as I really wanted to able to generate some spin with it, something I really liked about the Leggy... So there here was the pleasant surprise... I could generate MUCH more spin with the Millitall...I could hardly believe it! I could make the ball kick on my serves... not like I do with inverted, but much more than with Leggy!

Next I had a hit against the ball machine. Blocking against topsheet seemed a little easier.. less balls into the net... With the Leggy I needed to let the ball dig into the rubber more to generate some top and hit it back, with the Millitall this was easier as it just seemed to lift the ball easier...

Chopping away from the table felt a little different... the Millitall had a harder feel, but I had no trouble controlling the ball. It was very good at varying the spin... I could easily float the ball back or brush it hard for heavy backspin. It was actually easier to return with some sidespin, as the rubber just had some more grip...

Attacking backspin worked very well, seemed easier than with Leggy. Pushing it back it does grip a little more than Leggy, but I'm already quite use to adjusting for this... I'm not sure how the reversal varies between the two, but attacking backspin balls were definitely dropping on the other side, so there was some topspin...

I will try it in some games tomorrow... the key will be how much control I lose when chopping against loops, as I expect the Leggy will be better here, which is a key part of my game... The Millitall will likely give me more control in the short game though... Looks promising so far... to be continued...

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