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Spinlord Keiler
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Author:  ClausTrophobie [ 16 Jan 2017, 19:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

Three points on Keiler:

1. Imho there is a huge difference between 1,8 and 1,5 Sponge:
In 1,5mm I have much better control and a very direct feeling, much like short pips. In 1,8 I had far less control.
With 1,5mm lifting, blocking (espacially punch-block), smashing is excellent for medium pimples.
Not as good as short pips, but you gain a lot disrupting effect. My opponents often make remarks, how unconvenient the balls come.
Choping is controlled in placement, but you have very few spin (Medium Pips!).

2. I think the blade is very important:
With my Yinhe T6, which is relative stiff and fast, Keiler is excellent, because the sponge is soft.
With softer blades, it becomes inconsistent - to 'wobbly'.

3. On tactics: I play best with Keiler when I stay close to the table and play active all the time.

Author:  ChasFox [ 06 Mar 2017, 03:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

ClausTrophobie wrote:
Three points on Keiler:

1. Imho there is a huge difference between 1,8 and 1,5 Sponge:
In 1,5mm I have much better control and a very direct feeling, much like short pips. In 1,8 I had far less control.
With 1,5mm lifting, blocking (espacially punch-block), smashing is excellent for medium pimples.
Not as good as short pips, but you gain a lot disrupting effect. My opponents often make remarks, how unconvenient the balls come.
Choping is controlled in placement, but you have very few spin (Medium Pips!).

2. I thing the blade is very important:
With my Yinhe T6, which is relative stiff and fast, Keiler is excellent, because the sponge is soft.
With softer blades, it becomes inconsistent - to 'wobbly'.

3. On tactics: I play best with Keiler when I stay close to the table and play active all the time.


Yes from my initial dabbling with a sheet of black Keiler 1.8mm I think you are dead right here. On my softish TSP balsa 4.5 it was mushy wobbly but much better but a bit fast on the harder 6.5 blade. Keiler seems to get more direct each time it is reglued. May try a sheet of 1.5 next on the 6.5.
Fast blocks definitely seem to cause opponents a lot of trouble -like what was that!

Author:  BJ20 [ 29 May 2017, 00:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

For me Keiler 1.5 black for backhand was nothing special.
Plays more like a short pip. For me it was more a speed hitting pip, no special deception.

Blocking loops, just fine.
Not a lot of spin. Insensitive to incoming spin, but capable of generating some spin.
Opening backspin balls: very easy and fast, no low bounce ball at all on the other side of the table but good speed.
Defense away from the table very controlled but almost no reversal.

My conclusion: 8)
Just a pip for a good allround game without deception or anything else.
For me just a fast speed hitting pimple.
A very good controlled rubber with minimum deception.
Personally i prefer more disruption on the backhand side of my blade. :devil:

Author:  1dennistt [ 16 Aug 2017, 04:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

I've been using Keiler for a while now. Having some good results, 4th in the National Senior Games this summer (I had some excellent coaching advice along the way, just ran out of gas my last 2 matches.) Players below 2200 rating level had problems with the returns from the Keiler. At other tournaments I had mixed results (all used the Butterfly ball ;( which I don't care for). Those mixed results have more to do with me not being ready to play in tournaments I think.

I have it in 1.8 and 1.5 mm on my blades currently. In reality they are almost the same, thin sheets of 1.8 and a thick sheet of 1.5. Other than that, they play wonderfully, allowing me to change spin by adjusting my strokes and pressure on the ball. Soft hand blocks against topspin produce a slow ball with very little spin unless the ball is very spinny loop, then it seems to produce some reversal. Off of the same ball you can flat hit and produce a spinless sink ball, or use a standard short pips counter and get a quicker ball with still somewhat less spin than most short pips produce, I'd characterize the spin it produces as compared to other short pips.

Against backspin, you have the option to push dead, roll, or do a quasi-loop that will jump forward and up on the opponent. Usually surprises them the first couple of times they see that one. What I haven't mastered a push with spin, still a work in progress, as this hasn't been a priority for my game. I play with a modified Seemiller Grip, so when I want a spinny push I just use my inverted.

I know it can produce spin, since I do get backspin on my serves, I just need to workout the proper blade angles to not pop the ball up or shoot long when pushing with spin. I have been successful in pushing with spin against my robot, but had less success against live opponents. Something for me to work on. It also seems to produce enough spin for my short topspin serves, with a little deception this has become a nice addition to my service game.

Author:  1dennistt [ 16 Aug 2017, 04:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

BJ20 wrote:
For me Keiler 1.5 black for backhand was nothing special.
Plays more like a short pip. For me it was more a speed hitting pip, no special deception.

Blocking loops, just fine.
Not a lot of spin. Insensitive to incoming spin, but capable of generating some spin.
Opening backspin balls: very easy and fast, no low bounce ball at all on the other side of the table but good speed.
Defense away from the table very controlled but almost no reversal.

My conclusion: 8)
Just a pip for a good allround game without deception or anything else.
For me just a fast speed hitting pimple.
A very good controlled rubber with minimum deception.
Personally i prefer more disruption on the backhand side of my blade. :devil:



I agree with most of what is posted above, the deception if you can call it that, comes from the ability of Keiler to change speed and spin by using different techniques. It does not passively change spin on the ball, but does support a wide variety of strokes. Keiler is to spinny (in my opinion) to be a typical medium pip (563), and produces less spin than a typical short pip (802). It sets in a middle ground all its own. It can support both styles of play, I usually warm up with people like I'm using a short pip, and save the good stuff for the match. Watching their faces when they put the first couple of dead counters in the net, then giving them a quick short pips like counter or 2 followed by the dead counter. Priceless. Getting my opponent off balance mentally at the start of the match has become a very effective tool with Keiler. Sometimes it results in them trying to play more to my forehand which suits me well in matches with most of the opponents I have to face.

Author:  ChasFox [ 17 Aug 2017, 23:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

If the above reviews of Spinlord Keiler appear contradictory it is simply because Keiler is a very contradictory rubber no doubt due to the fast speed glue effect sponge combined with medium pip length.

Put Keiler 1.2 or maybe even 1.5 on a medium to hard blade and it does indeed play like a medium speed medium spinny short pip fairly direct and little deception or sink balls. Good for hitting like most short pimples and, but easier to block with both slow and fast than faster and less forgiving short pimples such as Warran.

Soften the blade and/or up the sponge thickness and Keiler turn into a different rubber. More dwell, faster more dangerous blocks, harder to play with but also harder to play against. Hitting is more difficult as is chopping but lifting back spin and slow looping is easier due to the better dwell/grip as the ball sinks into the sponge.

Having tried Keiler in 1.2mm, 1.5mm and 1.8mm black on a range of blades, my preference is for 1.5mm on a medium hardness all to all+ wood/ balsa blade. 1.8mm works really well on hard carbon type blades but needs a lot of skill to control the reward being a lot of unplayable shots. 1.2mm would be a good choice on a softish def blade for someone used to ox or thin sponges.

Having chosen my best combination all I have to do now is work out how to get the best out of this very complex rubber in time for our October local league start.

Author:  Keiler [ 18 Aug 2017, 06:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

Thanks ChasFox!

I played with spinlord Keiler 1.8 mm on my Butterfly Michael Maze frame and the sink effect was very good. Playing with the Butterfly gave me a harder feeling then with the re-impact Preference. With the re-impact Preference, I play with Spinlord Keiler 1.5 mm. This gives me a soft feeling. The sink effect is a little less then with the Butterfly, but there is more control by pushing etc. I have more options in my game with the Keiler on the re-impact, but with a little less deception.
Everything has its advantages and disadvantages.

Author:  detrytus [ 25 Oct 2017, 19:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

Could you help me with choice of sponge thickness?
My short, boring history :). I was playing LP Rebelion (backhand 0,5) but for me it was too hard to play offensively (too many errors). I thought that maybe I should play with SP (Friendship 802-40 super soft 1,8mm) but this was change to other side. I could hit but it was no problem to my opponent to hit even harder in return (and opponent was a weak one). So I`m looking for a rubber which allow to attack but it also should have deception to change tempo. I thought that Keiler will be worth to try but don`t know which thickness will be best for me. I`m not good chopper so I`m trying to avoid that. Or maybe I should change to SP OX? Thanks for help in advance!
Sorry for my English :)

Author:  ClausTrophobie [ 25 Oct 2017, 20:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

detrytus wrote:
Could you help me with choice of sponge thickness?
...
So I`m looking for a rubber which allow to attack but it also should have deception to change tempo. I thought that Keiler will be worth to try but don`t know which thickness will be best for me. I`m not good chopper so I`m trying to avoid that. Sorry for my English :)


I would go for Keiler 1,5mm. Maybe you want to read my post from 16 Jan 2017, 10:51 in this topic (again).
With Keiler you don´t have to chop! Play every ball offensively!
Your english is fine (so far I can judge it as a german :lol: ).

Greetings Claus

Author:  detrytus [ 25 Oct 2017, 20:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

ClausTrophobie wrote:

I would go for Keiler 1,5mm. Maybe you want to read my post from 16 Jan 2017, 10:51 in this topic (again).
With Keiler you don´t have to chop! Play every ball offensively!
Your english is fine (so far I can judge it as a german :lol: ).

Greetings Claus

I read it but I wonder what advantages or disadvantages 1.5 has comparing to 1,2 (or even OX) and 2.0 (except control)?

Author:  Soba [ 06 Dec 2017, 00:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

Hi,

Can you give me tips?

I just bought me my firts pimple rubber and its 1,5mm keiler. Im trying to learn to play with it in my BH. I have practised now 2 times with it and its quite fun to play with. I dont know what is the best way to practise with it. I mean is there any videos in net where I can see techniques how to play with this keiler? I feel this rubber more attacking one. I like to play near table.
My blade is butterfly Timo Ball allround and I dont wanna change it because my forehand rubber works well with that (rakza 7).

Author:  ChasFox [ 07 Dec 2017, 04:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

Keiler 1.5 should work fine on your blade. What you will find is that Keiler will be great for active shots e.g fast low angled blocks off top spin or lifting deep back spin, but can be tricky in slow play especially over the table due to its limited shot range and bouncy sponge. Suits the classic pip style of leading with the elbow and then using the wrist to create required spin and angle.

Author:  Soba [ 13 Dec 2017, 20:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinlord Keiler

Hi,

How do you guys clean your rubbers an how often?

S

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