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Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=29978		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  skilless_slapper [ 19 Jun 2016, 03:08 ]
Post subject:  Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
I've been on the hunt for a medium pip that provides a good bit of disruption (deadball/reversal), but also one that can be attacked with pretty often. I don't really loop a whole lot, and so far the short pips have been working although I'd like something more annoying and less linear/expected.

I did try long pips (d.techs, joola octopus/badman, hallmark phoenix, and a few others) -- these proved TOO spinless for me. Much too hard for me to attack with consistently. Good effect though.

563-1 was my next attempt... it might be just a little too bit spinny. There is a bit of weirdness on the ball during blocks etc. However, is there a rubber a little more disruptive than the 563 without going too far into the gripless LP territory? I like to block, chop, and smash the easy ones.
Author:  LordCope [ 19 Jun 2016, 04:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
DHS C7 with sponge would definitely do this.

Also Spinlord Keiler would be worth a try.
Author:  Def-attack [ 19 Jun 2016, 05:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
Dawei 388C-1 is great for that. Slightly softer pips than Palio WP.
Author:  rokphish2 [ 19 Jun 2016, 09:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
So far I'm liking Pluto on 0.8mm compared Dawei 388C-1 0.8mm albeit with different sponge type. Will try them with same sponge later on to even out the playing field to determine the difference isn't further made cause the sponge. So far find the Pluto to be more disruptive, can spin and smash well too, hitting with it has that going down effect on the other player. The 388C-1 at times could be more disruptive but more often too plain and bouncy (probably due to sponge). Another good alternative would be Killer, but a lot more expensive. Played against it and thought it was good for blocking and hitting.
Author:  AA [ 19 Jun 2016, 10:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
hellcat, pluto and killer come to mind..
Author:  skilless_slapper [ 24 Jun 2016, 14:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
Well, I've tried my hand at a large amount of medium pips since making the thread! Obviously not a lot of time with each one, but enough to see what kind of funk or reversal they get.

And so far... NONE have really fit the bill! I'm beginning to think what I'm after doesn't actually exist. Here's a list of the ones I've tried IIRC:

Dr. N Diamant 1.8
Hallmark Panther 2.0
armstrong attack 3 m 1.5
all of the 563 / 563 -1 with sponge and ox
Pluto 1.5
killer spin keiller and giplfelstrum

I've got about half a dozen more in the packages, waiting to be glued up... but it's doubtful!

The best I've played with (in terms of reversal and all that, blocking close etc.) is Joola Badman. Obviously that is a long pip though -- most of my attacks vs top spin go floating off the table, as expected.

The medium pips provided very little in terms of reversal. At best I might hope for a relatively dead ball or minimal top/back spin. Chop blocking didn't seem too effective either. Maybe the sponges were too thick. It seems that in order to get the coveted 'reversal/funky' ball, you have to leap into long pip territory and lose out on the offensive side of things. At least if you want a real noticeable effect. Having said that, I was able to beat a number of attacks that previously whooped me. The medium pips there offered just enough "oddness" that many of their hits either went into the net or off the table. So, all in all, I could say that they were a success -- just not to the degree that I'd been hoping for. Shame on me for wanting the best of all worlds in a single rubber! :lol:

Anyone else have their own findings for MPs?
Author:  DTopSpirit [ 24 Jun 2016, 18:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
I use TSP Curl P-2 in 1.0mm (black). You might find it worth a try.

Cons: Not the funkiest of rubber. No huge wobble effect, and only a low/medium amount of spin reversal/reflection.

Pros: Excellent control in all areas (hitting, chopping, pushing, blocking). It's long pip length with a wide pip top, so hitting is quite easy compared to other long pips I've used. Chops very well, can do heavy chop too. In the past I used it to mainly chop with as a long range defender, nowadays I use it to play up at the table very aggressively with a lot of driving/hitting through the ball. The hit it produces is not disruptive/wobbly, but it is quick enough and different enough to cause my opponents a lot of trouble due to the variation with my inverted rubber.

Anyway, that's my 2c worth.
Author:  rokphish2 [ 24 Jun 2016, 19:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
Use thinner sponge for better effects.
Author:  Ehimle [ 25 Jun 2016, 00:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
Mr. Letts,

I've been mildly interested in p2 for awhile, but can only find a little written about it. Over the last year I've done mild forays into mid pips from lps. The one I like best is Pluto, seems most like a long pip. I've tried it in ox It was okay until game time, then I got slaughtered, partly due to inexperience with them and partly cause I tried to play it like a long pip rather than short, and a few other factors. I also tried 1.5 which is too much coming from ox lps. I just slapped a .5 to .8 sponge, I took off a sword Scylla, on it and works the best in testing. I haven't tried it in game situation yet.

Anyways, back to subject at hand, is p2 more like long pips? Or closer to mid pips like 563? Or like Pluto, kinda in between? I read a review that Ox was the way to go, has best effects, etc., but don't want to pick up a sheet and have similar issues to Pluto and wish I had gotten a thin sponge version like you recommend. Anyways. Thanks.
Author:  DTopSpirit [ 25 Jun 2016, 01:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
Probably the best I can describe the 1.0mm P-2 that I use is that as the user, it feels like a long pip when chopping, and more of a medium pip when hitting (definitely not like a short pip, but not like P-1r or other long pips either). I can't comment on P-2 with no sponge since the 1.0mm is the only version I've ever used. But I doubt that you would gain enough disturbance to make up for the loss in control up close to the table from the lack of sponge.
Author:  skilless_slapper [ 05 Jul 2016, 13:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
DTopSpirit wrote:
I use TSP Curl P-2 in 1.0mm (black). You might find it worth a try.

Cons: Not the funkiest of rubber. No huge wobble effect, and only a low/medium amount of spin reversal/reflection.

Pros: Excellent control in all areas (hitting, chopping, pushing, blocking). It's long pip length with a wide pip top, so hitting is quite easy compared to other long pips I've used. Chops very well, can do heavy chop too. In the past I used it to mainly chop with as a long range defender, nowadays I use it to play up at the table very aggressively with a lot of driving/hitting through the ball. The hit it produces is not disruptive/wobbly, but it is quick enough and different enough to cause my opponents a lot of trouble due to the variation with my inverted rubber.

Anyway, that's my 2c worth.


I tested out the tsp p-3 alpha r rubber in a 1.4-1.7mm sponge. It has 'some' long pip effects, but nothing to write home about. More of a dead ball or slight spin reversal, if anything on most hits/blocks. The attacking capability was improved, as expected. Though I didn't feel the minimal LP effect was worth sacrificing the smashing potential.

I've since moved on to the TSP Millitall 2 in 1.7-1.9mm sponge. It really doesn't have any reversal. Not any real LP characteristics either. It does produce a low spin/no spin block at times, similar to the 563-1 rubber but with more spin on it. I think for my game, it was better to keep the attacking capabilities while sacrificing some of the 'weirdness' from LP type rubbers. Millitall offers some dampening effects with a decently noticeable ball return in comparison to inverted or short pips. Not enough to where anyone would confuse it with LP (at least at this thickness), but I do notice people looking down at their racket after a few of their returns go into the net. I just smile and say 'Medium pips ;) '

So it appears to be a happy medium -- along with pimpleini from nittaku. I'm also experimenting with Dr. N Killer. That one seems very similar to 563/563-1. Surprisingly, it has less spin than the millitall despite the pip configurations.
Author:  1dennistt [ 07 Jul 2016, 06:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
I had the same experience with both Killer and Killer Pro. Had both in a thin sponge and really didn't see a lot of difference. Liked PimpleMini and MilliTall II better than either of them. I'm currently using Keiler and like it better than the either of the Killer rubbers.

My current preference

PimpleMini
P3 @r
Keiler
MilliTall II
Killer Pro
Killer
563

Keep in mind that I was an aggressive hitter with long pips before the new ball came out, so that colors my preference in a medium pip.
Author:  skilless_slapper [ 08 Jul 2016, 01:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
1dennistt wrote:
I had the same experience with both Killer and Killer Pro. Had both in a thin sponge and really didn't see a lot of difference. Liked PimpleMini and MilliTall II better than either of them. I'm currently using Keiler and like it better than the either of the Killer rubbers.

My current preference

PimpleMini
P3 @r
Keiler
MilliTall II
Killer Pro
Killer
563

Keep in mind that I was an aggressive hitter with long pips before the new ball came out, so that colors my preference in a medium pip.


Did you think Killer had the least amount of spin from those rubbers? Aside from p3 r? Keiler seems pretty spinny overall. I think the Gifelstrum rubber from spinlord also has more spin, despite being a "long pip". That rubbers pips are very tall, but they're also thick, hard, and stiff. Very inflexible, almost like a short pip.
Author:  1dennistt [ 08 Jul 2016, 02:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
Yes, that was my experience, similar to 563. Less than I was expecting. I plan on revisiting it after playing a few months with Keiler, to see if my technique has improved.
Author:  skilless_slapper [ 08 Jul 2016, 10:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Medium Pip for Disruption Blocking + Hitting
1dennistt wrote:
Yes, that was my experience, similar to 563. Less than I was expecting. I plan on revisiting it after playing a few months with Keiler, to see if my technique has improved.


I went another few hours with killer today... terrible experience for me!

Many of my blocks/smashes went long. A technique issue, sure. But also due to the killer rubber reversing spin like a weak long pip! The balls floated off pretty frequently. It definitely plays more like LP than SP or even MP, from what I witnessed. It would take a big shift in style to use killer if moving from more spinny SP or inverted rubbers. I think LP users wouldn't find it too difficult to play. Although they might not like it either... as the rubber doesn't do a ton of reversal.

I don't know! For me, it was the WORST of both worlds! I'm moving back toward more spinny SP/MP to bolster my attacks, and give up a bit of the no-spin effect when blocking. I would say my search for a disruptive rubber with good hitting ability (for my style) has ended... with no success! I'll have to settle for the mild reduction in top spin through the use of SP and rely on the consistent blocking/smashing aspects.
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