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PostPosted: 21 Oct 2017, 03:33 
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Blade: victas Matsushita off
FH: DHS skyline 3 neo
BH: Millitall II
In this topic I will communicate to you my experience of playing with different MP. Feel free to question me or to comment on this topic.

After many years playing with a LP on my backhand I was still looking for the right LP. I play very good when I play an agressive style using my backhand to unstabilise the opponent and go for a FH attack with loop and drive near the table. I play with a Victas koji matsushita offensive blade and a DHS Skyline 3 GT neo on my FH.

I was never able to stay near the table with the LP. No LP was having enough offensive with control and enough disturbance. I was at best when my urge is to distabilise my opponnent with disturbance, deception with placement and speed.

So I went to try the Medium pips. TSP millital II to help me to be more offensive by keeping some defensive shot also. IT says that MP combine the shot of LP and SP. I play much better and change of level almost instantly. I was able to adapt more to the different style of players I met. Sometime more on defense and sometime more on offense. Sometime changing style in a middle of a match as the first style I was doing didn't work. I did raise on the rating after I change to millitall II 1.3 mm.

TSP millitall is an " all around " MP. It can do everything good but with no much highlight. As this rubber has an excellent control, the success of this rubber is the constant change of pace and placement that unstabilised the opponent. You can shop with a bit of reversal and you can create your own underspin. Your shot can go slow or faster but the rubber has a maximum speed that doesn't bother a good player. So I got a need for speed.

Then I discover other MPs that are faster but can still have disturbance and reversal also. ( see other topic on list of medium PIps.) My choice end up between The Nuebauer Agressor 1.3, der Materialspezialist Shockwave 1.5 and der Materialspezialist Hell Cat.1.5 I 'm starting with the first two.

I just broke one of my ankle so was not able to play with it yet so I tought I will give you a brief comparison of the 3 rubber sheet and note from the store who are selling these rubbers.

PIPS:

length : Agressor>Shockwave> Militall ( agressor is about 1.65 mm. same as PR-1)
diameter: Agressor>Shoskwave> Millitall ( agressor is about 2.1 mm. similar to spectrol)
Alignment: Vertical : Agressor, millitall
Horizontal: Shockwave
Hardness : Shockwave>agressor>Millitall
Grip: Shockwave>Millitall>agressor ( the soft sponge of shockwave & millital help to grasp the
ball more easily
Density: Millitall>agressor = Shockwave

SPONGE:

Hardness: agressor 45 Shockwave and millitall 35

General data from stores:

Spin: Shockwave>agressor>millitall
speed: Agressor>Shockwave>millitall
Control: Millitall>Shockwave>agressor

I play with the millitall for about 2 months. With very tinny soft pips Millitall is very slow compare to the 2 other. (Will see if I can control the 2 others.) The chop can be sometime quite nasty after 2 to 3 topspin return. The change of the angle make a float or an underspin. For the first time in 6 years I was able to make the 2 different shot. Same for the push. You play with the soft pimple or the sponge behind. The placement is excellent and you almost feel you hold an inverted rubber when you do direct contact shot that enter the soft sponge. The problem with the rubber is that it doesn't do anything wrong but doesn't do anything very strong. So a good player with a higher rating and good footwork will be at ease and overpower your chop, push, counter, block.... A good rubber for intermediate player.

First impression with Agressor and Shockwave

(I didn't play the next 2 rubbers with an oppponant yet but simply hit the ball on a table ( chop, push, lift,flat hit, top spin))

Agressor: Look a bit like an LP but that had been magnified. The pips are 2.1 mm by 1,65 mm and the sponge that is more on the hard side at 45. It's like having a Spectol mixe with a PR-1. The size of the pimples hit pretty good with speed to it but also some lp property due the length of the pIps. By the different videos on Utube it tend to make disturbance and reversal when the racket is active making the opponant to struggle to find the right tunning. I have been told also that it do some chopblock and good short block. Chop from the distance are low with some reversal. This chop tend to create as a result a push from the opponent and then you can do a fast flat hit or a fast top spin. ( see in the video) The attack are to be controled as when I tried to hit fast and strong the pips start to go in different direction making it difficult to control. But a good stable hit make a very fast pace shot. The variation of fast and slow pace is also a good attribute to this rubber. From fast hit to short block. ( SP then LP) This is all to verify in play.

Shockwave:: We going more on the short pips side. The pips are shorter and the diameter lower than the Agressor. IT still way much bigger than the Millitall. AT slow pace it seems that you have total control. The grip is fantastic and a good topspin can be done as you have less pips and more longer contact with the soft sponge. I feel I will be able to do more spin manipulation. Side spin are way more present then with the agressor. Can create also flat it. So flight variation will be more present so more decepfull. Tempo variation will also present in the shot depending how it will be executed. The pips doesn't bent as the agressor so there is a great feeling of control. The chop are smoother as it have more dwell time with the soft sponge. So you can create more of your own underspin.

I'm very anxious to play both rubber next monday to confirm all this.


Last edited by maddrag on 25 Oct 2017, 22:15, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 00:25 
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Blade: DONIC WSUC
FH: Andro Rasant Powergrip
BH: Dr Neubauer Aggressor
I play Aggressor also for a while. :)
I'm very satisfied with my sheet (1.5mm black)
Made my own detailed review in the topic Aggressor in the medium pip corner (Topic: Dr Neubauer Aggressor --> page 3)
--> In general a fantastic deceptive but fast MP if you can handle it. Not for beginners, only for more experienced players.
Only thing i didn't like is the grip (not a lot of grip)

Played shockwave (1.5mm) also for a while: it's as you say: more on the short pip side and fantastic grip.
Found that it has less deception as aggressor, but shockwave is easier to play. Good MP.

Nowadays never played Hellcat. Would like to test it also in 1.5 ( or 1.8 ) black.
Maybe if you test it, you can give me a more detailed review.

But I want just more grip than Aggressor without losing to much of the deception of course :devil:

Enjoy playing with AGGRESSOR and SHOCKWAVE :rock:


Last edited by BJ20 on 22 Oct 2017, 00:37, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 00:26 
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Blade: DONIC WSUC
FH: Andro Rasant Powergrip
BH: Dr Neubauer Aggressor
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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2017, 14:00 
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Blade: victas Matsushita off
FH: DHS skyline 3 neo
BH: Millitall II
ok, tonight I played with both rubbers. I used same blade the Victas Koji matsushita offensive with dhs skyline 3 neo.

Agressor: I started to exchange Bh drive with a player who is pretty fast with his BH drive. Not a pusher or chopper . Simply drive, block counter, top and loop.

I started by sending bh into the net as I got used to millital II with a more closed raquet. Then I played more of lift shot. I then started to simply block and small chop block. I feel I was playing with the TSP PR3 alpha. The difference is the great speed it procured when you do bump or lift agaist float or undersping ball. It is way much faster !!! The shot almost never come back. Very low linear no spin ball. It skid many time and It just died on the opponent racket. He did tried to loop the ball but it went long or it was a high ball that I killed. It is very easy to return serves. As peoples get used to do short serve they are the easiest one to bump. The opponant was doing a lot of mistake on the exchange like if he can't find the right distance. I'm not controlling that yet but the ball can be long or short from the angle of the bat. Strong hit loose control and find the net or the end of the table. But you don't need to hit hard as the sponge do the work and it is quite fast without forcing the shot . I will have to work to calm down my agressiveness.( I then switch to Shockwave)

I then come back for chopping. After coming back with chopping with shockwave like an SP chopping shot I was sending my ball way to high. I then changed for the best chop ever: the TSP Pr-1 chop. It is a very vertical chop ( chop from the left ear to the right knee) and HO la la !!! THe ball is very low rapid and tons of Underspin. I always said that with the new ball the PR1 lost its effectiveness. The long narrow pimples were to small to handle the new ball. NOW the pimples of the agressor are as long as PR-1 but way much bigger like spectol. I did need to practice more but wow what a release to find that shot effective again !!! At the end I didn't miss a lot of chop. It almost never occured to go over the table even feel that sometime I miss a bit of power to go over the net. I jus need to step forward a half feet nearer from the table.

Shockwave : After and hour of hitting with agressor I switched to shockwave. I started by sending all my ball outside. I needed to closed the angle as the rubber has a lot of grip. It took me a while coming from an LP background. I also step back a feet about. Then the ball started to be counter and blocked. Fast, springy shot with some good topspin on some of them. My opponant liked it as it looks more as inverted rubber. I started to hit flat shot inconsistanly. I found from this MP a lot of control, a variation of ball I never saw so far from an LP or MP. I did few push at the end and it created its own underspin. Some hitting, blocking, pushing, high chop block,

I then did some chop far from the table. IT is like an sp chopping. More horizontally and lower near the floor. When it chop correctly, the opponant have to push them or try to high loop them. His succes was not very good. Then I tried the side spin chop. I never saw a ball curving like that. I didn't need to chop so low near the floor. It look more as diagonal chop. The ball stay very low with a lot of curve.
When he loop with a hook and i did a sidechop the ball is return with a tremendous amount of side spin . A very exiting moment !!! When the sidechop started to his left side turning to his right toward his left elbow or his belly he was very surprise and hit a lot of miss hit or strike.

So for a person who is looking for a lot of varation and control, shockwave is a very good rubber. I feel I was playing with a TSP P4 with extra speed and rotation. But for me I prefer to practice more to have a better control with the agressor and have some shot that are bothering more all kind of opponant. I control already the serves receive part with a lot of effect on the return on all kind of services. I have to work on the counter, the block , the push if needed,( didn't practice that yet. )

Look the service part as what I can do with that rubber. Twiddling on the serve as they are more difference from the PIPs agressor vs the inverted rubber. So more deceptive shot on the serve.

I will hit few ball with millital II to see the difference.

Hope it help you to have an idea of these rubbers, Feel free to comment.


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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2017, 15:31 
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Is Millitall 11 still in production? Seems quite hard to find for sale.


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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2017, 16:26 
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Yes it's definitely still made, OOAK Shop got some from TSP quite recently.

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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2017, 22:27 
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Blade: victas Matsushita off
FH: DHS skyline 3 neo
BH: Millitall II
Plenty in north america.

If you want to watch a player who play a lot of bump anf lift with agressor 1.3 mm. Go to youtube and jis name is MESUT BARKALE. You will have a good idea. You can find a lot of review on youtube.


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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2017, 18:58 
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Great review maddrag!

Could you compare level of deception after passive block shot?

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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2017, 22:20 
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Blade: victas Matsushita off
FH: DHS skyline 3 neo
BH: Millitall II
for passive block they are quite different:

agressor: the ball come back with a very low trajectory and a quantity of reversal depending of the incoming ball spin and sped that is blocked. A no spin ball or backspin if the block was against heavy topspin. a light topspin if its again backspin. Against backspin if the ball is above the net a severe bump is more appropriate. It will give a very fast and very low no spin that skid on the table or light topspin ball with a strange kick.

P.s I ned to find a robot so I can try variation of angle and body position to see the result. A lower body position usually give a more stable longer and faster return as the weigh of your body is directly behind the hit. A higher position give a weaker hit and shorter ball. A quick move of your racket downward and you have a chop block. If you also close the angle of your racket and chopping more toward yourself at the rebound of the ball you have heavy chopblock. I think its a crucial training to know what you bat can do.

Shockwave: A passive block will give you a passive return with ligh topspin, no reversal, and that will probably easy to attack for the opponent. The active block is even more important here as you can put a lot of speed or a stop to the ball. This is part of the force of this rubber. A hit with a Close racket wil give, like sp, a very fast topspin ball . The ball has the tendency to just pass the net then to drop rapidly. A more vertical racket will give a light topspin and a more no speed ball. The chopblock difficult to get as it is to grippy to do a reversal. Again, the work with the robot will give you tons of possibility with this rubber as it is a rubber, that with active shots, will give you spin variation and manipulation of the spin and speed. The reversal is almost inexistant with this rubber so you have to do you variation with you body position.

Exemple: a shot to high from you opponent will give you the possibility to drive, top spin, flat hit or even to do a rip chop ( vertical heavy chop to a top spin ball on the rise). A underspin ball can be attack or push with good backspin.


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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2017, 23:10 
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maddrag wrote:
If you also close the angle of your racket and chopping more toward yourself at the rebound of the ball you have heavy chopblock.

Thanks!
One more...Do you have video of this somewhere? It`s sounds like very good shot but I`m trying to imagine it and now I`m looking like human knot :).

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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2017, 23:20 
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Blade: victas Matsushita off
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plenty on you tube: just type the name of the rubber and you will see review and what they can do with it. If you want to see a player playing game with the agressor 1.3 mm just type player with agressor 1.3 mm and you will be able to watch many different game.


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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2017, 08:49 
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maddrag wrote:
plenty on you tube: just type the name of the rubber and you will see review and what they can do with it. If you want to see a player playing game with the agressor 1.3 mm just type player with agressor 1.3 mm and you will be able to watch many different game.

Yes, thanks for instruction how to use youtube :D
I was wondering which shot exactly you are describing. Nevermind.

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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2017, 19:12 
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Great reviews Maddrag

Have you tried Spinlord Keiler or Gipfelsturm. If so how do they compare.

I am looking for a medium to long pimple rubber for controlled bhand play, that is slower than Keiler, which is hard to chop and push with, whilst still Allowing semi inverted style strokes i.e slight forward angled bat against top spin and slight lift against back spin. I tried Agenda LP the other day and it confused me as much as my opponent in trying to block top spin, which then messed with my fhand technique.

Have tried short pips but need to be on the front foot all the time, same with Keiler which is more disruptive but again really only suited for aggressive play in particular blocking topspin.


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 00:35 
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Blade: victas Matsushita off
FH: DHS skyline 3 neo
BH: Millitall II
I came from an LP background so I just tried 3 MP yet. The purpose is to find a good MP between LP properties (control, defense, disturbance) and sp properties (fast,counter,block) I find that effectively that is what MP do. It look that they range from the LP side up to SP side. So I will navigate toward different rubber until I found one that fit my style. I want to stay quite a bit at the table to attack with my FH loop.

I nerver tried your rubber. If you can define them thats great. For the rubber you are looking for millitall II seems to fit your need. It just not go fast but do everything with ease.

Tonight I'm going back at the table to go deeply with the agressor and will do some hit with Millitall II to see witch one work best for my style during game.


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 03:29 
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Blade: Xiom Hayabusa Z+ FL
FH: Donic Bluefire M2 Max
BH: SpinLord Keiler Red 1.8
Another option close to MilliTall II is Nittaku Pimplemini. I found it to be softer, slightly slower, and to have more grip so more reaction to spin than MilliTall. I've used multiple sheets of Pimplemini, vs just one sheet of MilliTall, so this could be clouding my judgement on these sheets.

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