OOAK Table Tennis Forum

comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II
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Author:  Dusty054 [ 31 Oct 2017, 12:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

1dennistt wrote:
Another option close to MilliTall II is Nittaku Pimplemini. I found it to be softer, slightly slower, and to have more grip so more reaction to spin than MilliTall. I've used multiple sheets of Pimplemini, vs just one sheet of MilliTall, so this could be clouding my judgement on these sheets.

Have you tried Tibhar Extra Long? If so, how would it compare to the above MP's?

Author:  maddrag [ 31 Oct 2017, 23:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

pimplemini is realy slow. For me its a "dead" rubber in a sense that it doesn't go forward to much doesn't have something to thrill about except that it has a very good control. IMO.

Yesterday I continued my training with the agressor. I find that the control decreased proportionally to the speed of the shot. Very good at low and medium speed .You need more technical precision at high speed ( god position of the body, good movement of the body during the hit and good follow through). For the peoples who play under a rating of 2000 with medium speed you will find this rubber rewarding .

The opponent was making a top serve and I just countered it or blocked it with a smooth hit and OMG it had a strajectory that goes down that is very difficult to bring back for the opponent. In fact more than a half of his shot find the net !!!

At higher speed, when in position and with good hit, the rubber react with a very good speed and you can hear a crisp noise that produce a flat ball straight to the end of the table. This give me hope that I found a real good rubber. IMO the bigger diameter (2.1 mm) of the pimple help on these shot.

In defense I really found a perfect rubber for defense at all distance.

Near the table, push almost vertical with or without sidespin will give a low no spin or light topspin with a very good light or heavy side spin with again low trajectory. A chop block can be made also that create a long and low ball with small underspin. The pimple being long with good reversal, I was not able to create my own backspin but the very low trajectory of the ball compensate and oblige the opponent to raise the ball that I can a attack with my FH loop.

Mid distance, I can start to chop like the TSP PR-1. Rip chop for high top spin, cut, or sp chop style for the ball that are slower, Wrist chop without arm are very effective. It give a low and short return. As the pimples are vertically alligned the chop can be made parrallele or perpendiculary of the flight of the ball. More reversal in parrallelle. More of a no spin low ball by doing it perpendiculary.

Long distance, The vertical chop against spinny ball are very difficult to return for the opponent.With side spin it was almost impossible to go over the table. A feeling of great confidence is created. A more block type chop can be made. It create a fast no spin, low spin ball . With side spin, its really wild and fun to see the opponent to wonder what just happen. :o I will put that shot in the offensive shot.

In an other forum we asked ourself if the new ball change the situation of using regular LP. Martin spin and myself believed that bigger pimples may be needed to compensate for the size of the ball. IMO The TSP PR-1 pimples got squashed byt he new ball and is not as effective as before. For me this rubber may be a first of the new generation !!!! :rofl:

Author:  maddrag [ 31 Oct 2017, 23:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

no never play with the TIbar extra long. Only played the 3 mp mentionned above. Sorry

Author:  ChasFox [ 01 Nov 2017, 05:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

Another interesting new generation medium pip is S&T Hipster.

Practicing last night against a player sending varying pace and depth topspin I used both Spectol 1.5mm and Musa 1.5mm for b/h on similar allround speed blades.

Although the Spectol gave me lots of control ,touch and variety my playing partner commented immediately on how much harder chops and slow loops/flips were to handle with the Musa due to the much greater spin.

Not being an out and out attacker on the B/Hand it looks like the answer for me is either to stay with Musa or graduate to a medium pip such as shockwave to benefit from some disruptive blocks whilst still having good control and ability to chop. As mentioned earlier in this thread I have tried Keiler for the past year but it is poor on control and for chopping. I.e too limited for all-round b/h play but great for blocking topspin and giving fast no spin returns.

Author:  1dennistt [ 01 Nov 2017, 05:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

maddrag wrote:
pimplemini is realy slow. For me its a "dead" rubber in a sense that it doesn't go forward to much doesn't have something to thrill about except that it has a very good control. IMO.


I can see that, I was using it on a fast balsa blade when I transitioned from Long Pips. That slow feeling and high control made my life easier. Until. I had to play US players over 2100 ratings, they just weren't threatened by the pace I was able to generate, below that level I had a lot of success. So I ultimately moved on.

Author:  maddrag [ 01 Nov 2017, 05:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

dear chasfox,

What is Musa ? Acronym or the name of a rubber ? What kind and caracteristics ?

Author:  ChasFox [ 01 Nov 2017, 07:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

Xiom Musa is a classic medium hard inverted rubber good for control and spin. In 1.5mm it is good for B/hand blocks against top spin.. Top spin flips against side spin serves and chopping away from table. Almost like a spinny short pip at times.

Author:  maddrag [ 07 Nov 2017, 03:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

Today I got my LP TSP PR-3a out of the closet as it look like they are part of the same family of the agressor. I took the same sponge thickness ( 1.3mm). I was curioust to see the difference.

[b]P.S I only did some shot without partner. So I can't compare to the reaction toward income ball speed and spin. [/b]

Indeed they offer a lot of similarities with the space between the pimple. The density of the rubber and its control. This make it easier to block, do reversal, low side spin and bump.

short shot: The tsp being more delicate and so the short push is easier. Side spin and bump look quite similar at low speed but the tsp seems to have difficulties to follow at higher speed. The Agressor can go further on the speed thus creating higher spin. The height of the ball tend to lower as the speed increase. The big pips diameter of the agressor start to bent more where the TSP is at it max. ( 2.1mm vs 1.5mm)

Block, drive, flat hit : You can hear more the sound of the blade at higher speed with the TSP The hit, the block, the drive are the same feeling, the same grip except again at higher speed where the agressor is faster and its pips has more grip and send the ball longer and faster.

defense: The TSP chop is more soft and send the ball shorter to the net. Your swing is from 10 to 4 o'clock. while the agressor you are more vertical from 11 to 5 o'clock.( like the TSP PR-1) I was able to create a bit more backspin on my own with the TSP but it is at low spin and speed. The agressor create at lower spin and speed a more agressive low backspin with higher speed then the TSP.

Conclusion: The agressor is better when play active at higher speed and spin.

Tonight I will play my first official play and do some training also. I predict that the Agressor will shine more at high speed ans spin being able to handle the new bigger ball better.

Author:  maddrag [ 08 Nov 2017, 00:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

Last night I practice a bit and play the team game at the club.

The chop is doing pretty good in practice. I really feel I can send the opp tons of backspin.

The drive was a bit difficult at the begining. Too much brushing, not enough direct hit or flat hit. Then I peactice against avery good chopper and boy it was easy. A lot of reversal, just sent it back, give a light to very good topspin as more return was made. The chopper stop playing as I was returning his chop with ease. I tried a lot of fast flat hit. This need more practice but always fun to see the ball flying rapidly to other side of the table then droping suddenly to hit the table.

The bump start to kick in. It will be a great weapon.

Try to practice counter but everytime I got it correctly the ball never come back. Robot or multi ball will work better.

The game:

1- against a very good RH bh looper. (100 rating below me). His footwork is a bit F*** up so I sidespin shop to his forehand then do fishing with my forehand from the forehand corner. And it end up with a miss hit or a weak return that I loopkill with with my forehand. game finish 3-0.

2- Against a inverted LH chopper blocker. ( 100 rating above me) Bump was my favorite weapon. His block against my bump didn't work so he start to chop. I bump more and then flat hit trought his chop. His chop didn't have a lot of underspin at the begining of the exchange and miss few ball long. So instead of only bumping his chops I alternate with push with the inverted so his chop was having more underspin and then bump again and then flat hit. His underspin was feeding me more bump with a lot of top spin falling down on the table. The flat hit missed few time but when it passed the net the ball was rapidly flying to the other side and passed throught him. 3-1

3- Against a RH both wing looper: ( 400 rating above me) I practiced a lot of shot as our team already won the meeting of that night. I wanted to verify how my rubber will react with fast loop. I used a lot of bump as he like to make short very underspin serve so his opposant has to raise the ball to pass over the net and then he loopkill the ball. It nullify his tactics has my bump were the nastier of the night. He serve short to my forehand, I move to my right and bump vey wide to his forehand. The very low very fast light topspin return was impossible to return at the beggining. He then chop my bump to make sure he passed over the net. I then bump, flat hit (BH)or top spin the ball ( FH) 1-0

The secound game a retreat to chop against his loop. Few return were outside as his loop wer very strong. I then ajust to get the ball to really go into my big long pips a very vertical chop. A tons of underspin !!! He sent half of it in the net. He was very surprise how I was able to chop his loop. Sometime on his softer spin I tried to chop like a SP . Few misses and few very long, fast chop that lend near the end of the table. ( more horizontal shop nearer to the floor) He won the game 12-10

The third game was for sidespin shop. A lot of miss, to high, to long. to much flothat. I did a few at the end that curve a lot specialy when he loop toward my FH corner but I manage to chop with a very low side spin toward wide to his FH corner. Some ball skid on the table. Those he ha sproblem to bring them back. He won the game 11-9

The fourth game was a variety of shot. I got more confident, more into the game and more agressive. Flat hit start to kick in. I did a few passive counter that was ok and did win points with it. But it is a chalenge to decide between the step back chop or the counter against a heavy looper. He won 15-13.

I ws delighted by my execution knowing it was my first official game with this rubber. I never got so close to beat him. Always beating me 3-0 some matches were not even at all. At the end he said, I didn't know what to do for my serves as it sems that you can agressively return them. Only long serve to we start a loop-chop rally. He asked me to practice with him It was an honor.

I want to finish by saying IMO this is the PIPs of the next generation. It does avything nicely and without too much difficulties. You have to be active to make the pips bend or not, fast or not, spin or not. No llops were strong enought that I feel it hit my blade. WOW !!! :D

Author:  ChasFox [ 08 Nov 2017, 22:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

Thank you for the excellent on-going feedback on these MP's

I am tempted to try Shockwave or Aggressor for the ability to chop well not just block/hit - I find Keiler no good for chopping top spin or low back spin pushes. My Spectol 1.5mm chops and pushes quite well but offers little disruption and is a bit slow on a def+ blade.

Against a defensive opponent giving one no pace to block against, do you think would Shockwave be more suitable than Aggressor for being better at varying the pace and shot type.

How much of the speed and lower control of Aggressor is due to your fast blade - do you think it will be have more control on a slower blade such as the Defplay senso.

Author:  maddrag [ 09 Nov 2017, 00:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

dear detrytus, chasfox and other LP,MP fan,

A very good video on Youtube of diffrent Lp strokes from a very good player from canada is "Long Pips close and far from the table technique ." It has a unique footage of combinaison of chop block, push and bump that really show what you can do near the table with an LP or MP that has good reversal.

Don't need to say that practice is a must to handle these shot simultaneously as spin, angle, speed body position and shot execution need to be accurate to be successfull. Rating of this player in Canada is about 2700. ( 2900 in US).

Author:  maddrag [ 09 Nov 2017, 00:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

dear chasfox,

A very frequent answer to various question from experience player is " It depend ".

To know you better, I would ask these questions before to answer something that relate to you :

- What is yours rating ?
- What is your purpose with ping-pong ?
- How long have you been playing ?
- Frequence of playing ?
- Do you play tournament ( no, yes. ( if yes, what frequence ?)
- What type of player are you ?
- what is your type of game and general strategy in your game ?
- Favorite shot in your game ?
- most difficulties your encounter in your shot ?
- Present set up of your racket ?
- You want an easy racket to handle or a racket that may have difficulties at the beginning but reward
your game after hours of tractice ?
- Do you like and do practice specifics shot and sequence of shots with a partner or robot (not during
playing game)

Author:  maddrag [ 22 Nov 2017, 01:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

An other monday night at the club. First I Trained for 1 hours.

Shockwave: almost look like inverted. First send a lot of ball over the table then close the blade angle and start to hit the table. Much more rapid than the Agressor. A lot of top spin for a MP. It is more like a SP. The sponge being softer than the Agressor. The chop are a lot different than Agressor. It grip the ball like inverted. I send a lot of ball into the net. You need to open more the blade and shop more horizontaly. You really have to pay attention to the opponent spin to choose the right angle to chop the ball. I saw that the transition between Agressor and Shockwave will take me for about 3 hours to start to play confident so I stop to play the Shockwave to go back to my Agressor that I play for about 10 hrs so far.

Agressor: Relief to play back with that MP as My little training (1hr) was in fact a kind of warm up before our weekly evening team tournament. IMO The chop are more easy than the Shockwave. I hit it with a vertical movement. The ball goes into the pips and sent it back like a trampoline. The pimple really play a big role into the chop. If I chop with more speed the ball just goes back more rapidly. A big plus with the chop is that the height of the ball return is not that much affected by the opponent spin. More spin from the opponent mean more penetration into the pips that trap more the ball so the return has more reversal and slower. Less spin from the opponent send a ball back that is more rapid ( less penetration into the pips) and it feel that you are creating an offensive chop. The top sheet is an anti spin so the effect of it and the ability for the reversal is helped by that top sheet.

The hit and counter can be done with a lot of variation. I still discover that MP and find it more versatile every mninute I play with it. If you hit it flat the pips doesn't come into play as it has pips with 2.1 mm diameter. If you start to hit with an angle the pips start to influence the shot. You can create spin ( top) at high spin as the pips just help the brushing of the ball. When the ball goes deep into the pips you can create a very low slow top spin ball over the net. I did have some slow top spin ball that bounce twice on the table.

So speed and spin variation is a huge plus for this MP:

slow ball when the pips come into play or fast ball when hit in a flat way.

Spinny ball when pips come into play. Float ball when hit it flat.

Spin of the opponent can be use differently. Bigs pips against the spin to create a float ball, or a very slow and low counter top spin. No interference with the pips to create a flat hit with some reversal or pips with the spin that make a lot of spin.

I can also hit he ball with an horizontal bat angle or vertical angle that create a different spin and speed.

I can't wait to have my 3 hours training in 3 weeks.

I then play 3 matches against 3 diffrents players. I will all of my 3 matches. The variety of my serves with pips and inverted and twiddling kept them on their toes. The way they return my serve dictate the kind of serves I will use. So a very good night in general.

Author:  maddrag [ 24 Nov 2017, 00:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

Today I realised that when I compare millitall II to the Agressor this come up:

Millitall II : an MP that can do everything but nothing that make you wow !! They are no signature shot for that pip. Can be good to practice to learn the different shot of LP and SP and incorporating it in your game style. It does forgive for not precise body position or shot execution. After a wild, you may want more pizzas in some of your shot and maybe will start to think to find an other rubber. But other rubber may give you what you want but also stop you to do some other shot. More reversal = less offensive capacities.

Agressor : An Mp that IMO can give a lot of avenues. Reversal, spin, flat hit, offense and defense. A lot of very precise shot that give very exiting result. It is a rubber that need training as it is for me the most versatile MP I found so far. You want to some WOW !!!! you can have it but not without some training. Slow, fast, underspin, float, top spin. He can do all but you need to know how to do them and only practice will give you that. The signature shots for me so far are the fast flat hit, the bump, the heavy underspin chop far from the table, the swipe.

keep you posted.

Author:  Def-attack [ 24 Nov 2017, 06:41 ]
Post subject:  comparison MP - Agressor, shockwave and millitall II

Millitall is great for chopping. You can use it as a slow grippy rubber that gives great back spin on first chop even against a block. You can also chop with little spin like with s short pip. Blocking and attacking is ok but difficult. I used it for half a year on Joo Se Hyuk.

Look at 13:10 and forward in this clip, there I chop and (at least once) blocks with Millitall II on Joo
It is from a post in my blog from October 2015, just before I changed to anti.

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