OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 19 Feb 2018, 03:59


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2017, 17:24 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 05 Dec 2017, 01:24
Posts: 21
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 0 time
Blade: Butterfly Timo Ball allro
FH: Rakza 7 2,0mm
BH: Keiler 1,5 mm
Hi guys,

Any experince how long does it take to learn playing med pips after inverted in my backhand? If I practise 3-4 times?

S


Top
 Profile  
 


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!

PostPosted: 16 Dec 2017, 18:04 
Offline
Hurricane Lover
Hurricane Lover
User avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2008, 19:19
Posts: 2492
Location: Indonesia
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 134 times
Blade: DHS Long 2
FH: Dianchi D
BH: Yinhe Pluto
Soba wrote:
Hi guys,

Any experince how long does it take to learn playing med pips after inverted in my backhand? If I practise 3-4 times?

S
I played 2-3 times a week (not training/drills, just playing against other people).

Took me more than half a year to be about half my level before switching. Took a year and a half or so (with about 2 months vacuum) to be about the same level I was using inverted.

But really I didn't get any coaching by other people nor from watching videos. Just doing things my way, which account to the slowness and the not proper techniques used on the medium pimple.

During year 1.5-2 was my highest improvement with it.

If you have coaching, practice partners, doing drills (and/or multi balls), learn from videos, etc. I'm sure you could do it much faster and more proper.

P.s. the moment i switched to medium, my level sunk, torpedoed to the lowest level. I even lost against several people that I used to give 5 points handicap before switching. I just kept going and climbed back over the months.

_________________
instagram: rokphishtt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2017, 18:57 
Online
Senior member

Joined: 22 Feb 2017, 04:18
Posts: 121
Location: Wakefield UK
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 14 times
Blade: TSP 5.0
FH: Musa 2.0
BH: Keilar 1.8
What prompted you to change and persevere for so long as it was clearly not love at first hit!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2017, 19:06 
Online
Senior member

Joined: 22 Feb 2017, 04:18
Posts: 121
Location: Wakefield UK
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 14 times
Blade: TSP 5.0
FH: Musa 2.0
BH: Keilar 1.8
Soba wrote:
Hi guys,

Any experince how long does it take to learn playing med pips after inverted in my backhand? If I practise 3-4 times?

S


Having used Keiler for a while just make sure it is going to give you what you want to achieve before spending hours practicing. Keiler is fast and disruptive but not great in defensive/ passive play.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 19:40 
Offline
Hurricane Lover
Hurricane Lover
User avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2008, 19:19
Posts: 2492
Location: Indonesia
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 134 times
Blade: DHS Long 2
FH: Dianchi D
BH: Yinhe Pluto
ChasFox wrote:
What prompted you to change and persevere for so long as it was clearly not love at first hit!
I was just getting bored and the idea of playing a more defensive game had been on back burner for years.

Funny thing is that now I'm also more offensive with the backhand than before the switch.

I started the switch trying out short pips, then long pips, when I had a chance to try medium pips it was just clicked with me right away. SP for me to be too plain and I got butchered too easily. I lost the edge on most aspects as it favors (for my mind) more offence play (hitting, punch block). My ball became too easy for the other guy to attack. LP too passive for me. The MP was just right for me.

Although I sunk to the lowest level, I had some of those high moments (by chance) which convinced me I could do those regularly were I persevere. And I'm glad I did.

_________________
instagram: rokphishtt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 20:11 
Online
Senior member

Joined: 22 Feb 2017, 04:18
Posts: 121
Location: Wakefield UK
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 14 times
Blade: TSP 5.0
FH: Musa 2.0
BH: Keilar 1.8
I get what you are saying about short pips on the b/h as they can be quite easy for opponents to return even fast hits.

A fast hit or block with Keiler however seems much harder to return due to more skid effect.

Where I like spinny not too fast shirt pips is for playing against backspin pushers. They are used to opponents returning the same i.e pushing battles. If however you lift their pushes to give a topspin/sidespin return with varying speeds angles and bounce height they get out of their comfort zone. Keiler is also very easy to lift backspin pushes with if deep, although perhaps a bit fast for good control.

My goal is too find a slightly slower Keiler to allow more all-round passive as well as active play. Got a sheet of degu 2 to try and Gipfelsturm is another option but again may be too fast.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 21:39 
Offline
Hurricane Lover
Hurricane Lover
User avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2008, 19:19
Posts: 2492
Location: Indonesia
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 134 times
Blade: DHS Long 2
FH: Dianchi D
BH: Yinhe Pluto
ChasFox wrote:
I get what you are saying about short pips on the b/h as they can be quite easy for opponents to return even fast hits.

A fast hit or block with Keiler however seems much harder to return due to more skid effect.

Where I like spinny not too fast shirt pips is for playing against backspin pushers. They are used to opponents returning the same i.e pushing battles. If however you lift their pushes to give a topspin/sidespin return with varying speeds angles and bounce height they get out of their comfort zone. Keiler is also very easy to lift backspin pushes with if deep, although perhaps a bit fast for good control.

My goal is too find a slightly slower Keiler to allow more all-round passive as well as active play. Got a sheet of degu 2 to try and Gipfelsturm is another option but again may be too fast.


That's because Keiler is MP, same deal with what I use (Yinhe/Milky Way Pluto).

If you want slower/more all-round I suggest you try thinner sponge.

I play thinner to thicker sponge depending on my mood. If I were in more defensive mood, I play with 0.8/1.0mm sponge. It comes with 1.5mm and 1.8mm sponges only so I use OX and chinese sponge for the 0.8/1.0 mm. More brake and disruptive effect on blocks and chops. If I were on regular mood/all-round I use 1.5mm sponge. I'm now trying out more offensive with the 1.8mm sponge, still getting used to it.

_________________
instagram: rokphishtt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 21:58 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 05 Dec 2017, 01:24
Posts: 21
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 0 time
Blade: Butterfly Timo Ball allro
FH: Rakza 7 2,0mm
BH: Keiler 1,5 mm
ChasFox wrote:
Soba wrote:
Hi guys,

Any experince how long does it take to learn playing med pips after inverted in my backhand? If I practise 3-4 times?

S


Having used Keiler for a while just make sure it is going to give you what you want to achieve before spending hours practicing. Keiler is fast and disruptive but not great in defensive/ passive play.



Yes I have noticed that. I like active offensive play. I have now 1,5 mm and its quite fast.

S


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 22:01 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 05 Dec 2017, 01:24
Posts: 21
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 0 time
Blade: Butterfly Timo Ball allro
FH: Rakza 7 2,0mm
BH: Keiler 1,5 mm
rokphish2 wrote:
ChasFox wrote:
I get what you are saying about short pips on the b/h as they can be quite easy for opponents to return even fast hits.

A fast hit or block with Keiler however seems much harder to return due to more skid effect.

Where I like spinny not too fast shirt pips is for playing against backspin pushers. They are used to opponents returning the same i.e pushing battles. If however you lift their pushes to give a topspin/sidespin return with varying speeds angles and bounce height they get out of their comfort zone. Keiler is also very easy to lift backspin pushes with if deep, although perhaps a bit fast for good control.

My goal is too find a slightly slower Keiler to allow more all-round passive as well as active play. Got a sheet of degu 2 to try and Gipfelsturm is another option but again may be too fast.


That's because Keiler is MP, same deal with what I use (Yinhe/Milky Way Pluto).

If you want slower/more all-round I suggest you try thinner sponge.

I play thinner to thicker sponge depending on my mood. If I were in more defensive mood, I play with 0.8/1.0mm sponge. It comes with 1.5mm and 1.8mm sponges only so I use OX and chinese sponge for the 0.8/1.0 mm. More brake and disruptive effect on blocks and chops. If I were on regular mood/all-round I use 1.5mm sponge. I'm now trying out more offensive with the 1.8mm sponge, still getting used to it.



How different is 1.2mm compared 1,5mm? I mean is it easier to practise?

S


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 22:17 
Online
Senior member

Joined: 22 Feb 2017, 04:18
Posts: 121
Location: Wakefield UK
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 14 times
Blade: TSP 5.0
FH: Musa 2.0
BH: Keilar 1.8
I find Keiler 1.2mm is just harder in feel with less spin and disruption than 1.5mm which is probably the optimum if you can control the speed.

Keiler is very blade sensitive as well. Seems to suit harder all wood or carbon blades and a bit strange and inconsistent on balsa.

Very much a marmite rubber probably due to the speed sponge and pips effect not always working in harmony.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Dec 2017, 23:49 
Offline
Hurricane Lover
Hurricane Lover
User avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2008, 19:19
Posts: 2492
Location: Indonesia
Has thanked: 125 times
Been thanked: 134 times
Blade: DHS Long 2
FH: Dianchi D
BH: Yinhe Pluto
Soba wrote:
How different is 1.2mm compared 1,5mm? I mean is it easier to practise?

S


I have tried 0.8 mm, 1.0 mm, 1.5 mm, and 1.8 mm

Didn't notice much different between 0.8 and 1.0 so I would lump both into one section. Then the 1.5 and 1.8, so three section for me.

From my experience (my perspective/how I like to play): easier to practice would be thicker sponge. 1.8 mm would be more like SP more toward inverted. If I were to suggest taking baby steps to ease the switch to MP then I would suggest 1.8 mm. Cons would be the disruptive effects would be much less.

When I did the switch I used the 1.5 mm and it was quite a change from inverted, thus the level of play sunk considerably. After I managed with playing with the 1.5 mm I experimented with the 1.0 mm. Quite different but my level didn't drop. It was just like switching different strategies with similar tool. More disruptive effects. I could play defensive more effectively.

So, if I were to suggest:

1. 1.8 mm is much easier to practice with to start off. If no coaching, no committed friends to do drills with for specific times, this would be the easiest route. Won't sacrifice too much of the current level of play.

2. The sweet spot would be if it were up to me the 1.2/1.3-1.5 mm. Considerable disruptive effects and could swing comfortably between defensive and offensive. Best for all-round minded. Big change from inverted. Expect big drop in level to start with.

3. The more defensive minded with occasional offensive. Most disruptive effects. Use this if you much like to be seen grinning/smirking/laughing at your opponents making mistakes in returning the ball. If one enjoys chopping a whole lot, wobbly block/push, wiggly roll, etc. Need more sensitive touch.

If I play with people with lower level and want to use minimal effort/energy, I use thinner sponge. The disruptive effects would do the works for me.

If I play with around the same level, using thinner sponge would make me exert more energy in playing. Playing defensively/chops would make me run around here and there. And the disruptive effects I get from blocking/push requires more energy because it needs more sensitive touch of me putting constraint on my strokes and at times I need more energy to push back since the thinner sponge have more braking effect thus the ball goes short and didn't make it over the net.
Also good for playing against LP users. At times it helps me playing against people of higher level spin oriented players. The wider/bigger varience of disruptive effects and heavy chops helps a lot. Usually against this type I play chops away from the table to make this works best.

Most of the time, I'm comfortable in playing style and exerting the energy with the 1.5 mm. The term jack of all trade applies here. I can use more variety of things to do with it. I use it mainly and pick up the other blade with thinner sponge for special occasions.

_________________
instagram: rokphishtt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2017, 00:22 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 05 Dec 2017, 01:24
Posts: 21
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 0 time
Blade: Butterfly Timo Ball allro
FH: Rakza 7 2,0mm
BH: Keiler 1,5 mm
rokphish2 wrote:
Soba wrote:
How different is 1.2mm compared 1,5mm? I mean is it easier to practise?

S


I have tried 0.8 mm, 1.0 mm, 1.5 mm, and 1.8 mm

Didn't notice much different between 0.8 and 1.0 so I would lump both into one section. Then the 1.5 and 1.8, so three section for me.

From my experience (my perspective/how I like to play): easier to practice would be thicker sponge. 1.8 mm would be more like SP more toward inverted. If I were to suggest taking baby steps to ease the switch to MP then I would suggest 1.8 mm. Cons would be the disruptive effects would be much less.

When I did the switch I used the 1.5 mm and it was quite a change from inverted, thus the level of play sunk considerably. After I managed with playing with the 1.5 mm I experimented with the 1.0 mm. Quite different but my level didn't drop. It was just like switching different strategies with similar tool. More disruptive effects. I could play defensive more effectively.

So, if I were to suggest:

1. 1.8 mm is much easier to practice with to start off. If no coaching, no committed friends to do drills with for specific times, this would be the easiest route. Won't sacrifice too much of the current level of play.

2. The sweet spot would be if it were up to me the 1.2/1.3-1.5 mm. Considerable disruptive effects and could swing comfortably between defensive and offensive. Best for all-round minded. Big change from inverted. Expect big drop in level to start with.

3. The more defensive minded with occasional offensive. Most disruptive effects. Use this if you much like to be seen grinning/smirking/laughing at your opponents making mistakes in returning the ball. If one enjoys chopping a whole lot, wobbly block/push, wiggly roll, etc. Need more sensitive touch.

If I play with people with lower level and want to use minimal effort/energy, I use thinner sponge. The disruptive effects would do the works for me.

If I play with around the same level, using thinner sponge would make me exert more energy in playing. Playing defensively/chops would make me run around here and there. And the disruptive effects I get from blocking/push requires more energy because it needs more sensitive touch of me putting constraint on my strokes and at times I need more energy to push back since the thinner sponge have more braking effect thus the ball goes short and didn't make it over the net.
Also good for playing against LP users. At times it helps me playing against people of higher level spin oriented players. The wider/bigger varience of disruptive effects and heavy chops helps a lot. Usually against this type I play chops away from the table to make this works best.

Most of the time, I'm comfortable in playing style and exerting the energy with the 1.5 mm. The term jack of all trade applies here. I can use more variety of things to do with it. I use it mainly and pick up the other blade with thinner sponge for special occasions.



For me it has been surprising that my reults has been about the same after I changed Keiler. Maybe it is because Im not so high rating player (in Finland 1400 rat, the best are 2500 about). but I really love playing with Keiler. I dont really know how to play with that, but it still is good. I have noticed that I have to play even more activly with Keiler than inverted, then it rocks.

I have a robot so maybe its good idea to parctise with that? Any Ideas how to practise my backhand with robot?

S


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2017, 01:37 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 00:48
Posts: 2064
Location: Lafayette, California
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 76 times
Blade: BBC Ghost
FH: TSP Spinpips RED
BH: Gambler GXM
I've tried many MPs and found Keiler amongst the hardest to use due to its lack of lift and the great difference in speed between passive and active strokes. Try something easier like 563 or Aggressor, or even an SP. And don't be seduced by the occasional totally unreturnable ball that most MPs can produce.. this is a game that's won with consistency, not flash.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2017, 02:25 
Online
Senior member

Joined: 22 Feb 2017, 04:18
Posts: 121
Location: Wakefield UK
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 14 times
Blade: TSP 5.0
FH: Musa 2.0
BH: Keilar 1.8
nathanso wrote:
I've tried many MPs and found Keiler amongst the hardest to use due to its lack of lift and the great difference in speed between passive and active strokes. Try something easier like 563 or Aggressor, or even an SP. And don't be seduced by the occasional totally unreturnable ball that most MPs can produce.. this is a game that's won with consistency, not flash.


Good advice and I agree with your observations on Keiler. How does aggressor compare to Keiler in speed, spin and control in particular on defensive strokes like chop block/ chop near the table and slow top spin flicks/rolls all of which I find are weaknesses of Keiler.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Dec 2017, 03:01 
Offline
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 6269
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 747 times
Soba wrote:
Hi guys,

Any experince how long does it take to learn playing med pips after inverted in my backhand? If I practise 3-4 times?

S


:lol: :lol: :lol: 3-4 times... :lol:

Let me tell you about what happened to me. About 2 (?) years ago I started playing again and started posting on this forum. And started catching up on who the current pro players were. And came across Fukuhara Ai. Who uses medium pips. Someone on the forum mentioned that she used some Japanese brand, but it was "similar" to 563. Which was CHEAP, and I was buying lots of sheets of AliExpress anyway. Well, thought I, maybe I can learn to play like that. And at lower levels of play I could even bamboozle people by flipping the bat around when serving.

Well, it lasted all of four days. It takes quite a bit to unlearn your backhand strokes, to open up the racket face. So I was putting lots of shots in the net. And then pushing was another thing altogether - suddenly all my pushes were popping up. OK, fine, I thought... maybe if I stick with this for a couple weeks I'd learn. But what REALLY made me switch back to inverted was what it did to my FOREHAND. Attacking with pips (short, long or medium) ideally requires hitting the ball early, at the top of the stroke. Which meant standing close to the table. Couldn't stand back a step any more, all of my forehand shots were suddenly getting rushed. Thinking about it, I decided that if I were going to go through with this, it wouldn't take two weeks. Or two months. It would take maybe four. And I'd have to do it full time and practice a lot more than I was. In the end I decided to switch back.

Still have that sheet of 563 somewhere....

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 111Iceman111, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: