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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2012, 19:01 
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wobblingman wrote:
I think Koto for the forehand is good, but what should I take for the backhand outer ply?
and what would you recommend for the inner plies and the core?

Among the slowest woods feasible as outer plies and suitable for lp are alder (said to be the best choice for choppers), basswood (though this is said to be better for blocking rather than chopping), cedar, cherry (mainly for a disturbing type of play).

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PostPosted: 11 Sep 2012, 20:48 
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thanks,
and for the core? and should I make a 3 ply or 5 ply?

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PostPosted: 12 Sep 2012, 01:29 
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During the last years, I used to have balsa cores. However, many people dislike balsa. What was the blade alike that you have used yet?

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PostPosted: 12 Sep 2012, 21:22 
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Thanks. I think I will use Kiri instead of Balsa.

It has to be a defensive blade with fast forehand (koto) and a controled backhand (anigre)

So what would a combination: Anigre/Kiri/koto do? Should I use medial plies between Koto and kiri and anigre and kiri, or is a 3-ply blade enough?

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PostPosted: 13 Sep 2012, 19:13 
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Anegre is quite fine. I like it with anti, but assume it will work out with lp too. Its hardness is medium and it is rather stiff. Furthermore, it is light. I feel it dampens quite well and thus is a well suited outer ply for your needs (I actually forgot mentioning it in my previous post).
Kiri is somewhere between abachi and balsa in terms of catapult. You might like it with your fh, if you loop, but maybe you will dislike it with your bh. So you should consider dampening its effect with an interlocking ply. This could be a thin veneer of the same wood but turned by 90°. However, I have learned that the catapult of kiri is best dampened by carbon or a similar veneer, which you probably will not have avail. If you do not like catapult at all, you should not consider kiri, but maybe prefer abachi/ayous as core wood.
Koto is ok; fast but not extremely fast; not extremely spinny, too.

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PostPosted: 13 Sep 2012, 23:30 
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You think I will have a good forehand with abachi?
I also have Limba veneer, maybe I can use that as medial ply?

I think this is the best then:

Anigre (double) - abachi or Kiri - (limba?) - koto

Further I can buy about 20 other kind veneers. what would work the best with anigre and koto and limba or kiri core ply?
thank you very much!

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PostPosted: 13 Sep 2012, 23:38 
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This depends a little on the style of your play. For topspin, imo, there is no better outer ply than limba, for a blocking style I would prefer koto.
However, you may be quite certain that your first attempts will unlikely get you a well playable blade; you gotta learn by doing quite a lot what may get wrong! Please understand that I am not a blade-builder myself, I just collected some experiences on woods during decades of blade testing.

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2012, 00:39 
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Oké thanks!

I will do for for my forehand lima/koto
and for my backhand double anigre? or do you know another wood for medial ply?

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PostPosted: 14 Sep 2012, 16:17 
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Cherry might be an idea. This, I assume, would enhance disturbing effects of your bh without harming the natural features of anegre too much. However, if safety is your first choice prior to disturbance, do not place another veneer beneath anegre or take too layers of it.
Furthermore, behind limba, Sorbus torminalis (I think the common name is service tree, but ain't sure) is a very good choice to further support your spin and to have the rebound angle of your fh a little flatter.

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2014, 02:35 
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A couple of comments.

"Kevlar" is a brand name. The actual material is aramid. So they're more or less the same thing.

Core woods - I've heard of basswood being used. Midwest sells basswood in sheets as thin as 1/32", I saw some in an art supply store the other day. Paulownia is also fairly easy to come by - if you have a Daiso store in town they might carry it (in sheets as thin as 6mm) or you might be able to order it. I saw some blocks of Jelutong for sale in the same art shop where I saw the basswood, problem is I'd have to re-saw it and surface-plane it. I've heard of poplar being used - the "Lite Ply" sold in hobby shops is poplar. I personally use very thin birch plywood (1/64" or 1/32") as the face plies on my blades. Get these (and your balsa wood) from hobby shops or mail order from hobby suppliers, e.g.:

http://shop.balsausa.com/category_s/67.htm

End grain balsa! Available in different thicknesses, which wasn't the case when I was making blades.

http://www.specializedbalsa.com/products/end_grain.php

This one's in Australia! The balsa's probably from Papua New Guinea rather than Ecuador.

http://www.balsacentral.com/shop/

Cork? Look at all those reviews of the 729 Bomb blade - it seems very popular. Problem is, I don't think it's being made any more - can't find it on any of my direct-from-China websites. There's the new 729 A3 which also uses cork, might even be the same blade. I just bought some 1.5mm cork sheet at the Daiso.

Do a web search for veneer - you'll find online sources. Some of it, though, is far too pretty for use in table tennis blades! Here is one:

http://www.marwoodveneer.com/flitchstock/

My contention is a lot of the wood you see in table tennis blades is used because it's readily available from the veneer trade. Veneer seems to come in one standard thickness (about .025") with some variation. You'll find imperfections in pieces - splits, etc. And wide pieces are glued together.

Iskandar


Last edited by iskandar taib on 14 Jan 2014, 10:24, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2014, 06:36 
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The BBC All Around is not made of cherry anymore. It says Obeche - Avi - Avi - Avi - Obeche.

I have one and love it but i have no idea what the avi wood is, probably a local common name since a search brings up nothing.

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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2014, 07:35 
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Great information iskandar taib :up: :up: :up:

Particularly interesting aboit kevlar... never know that!

BTW Bomb blade is definitely still made.

iskandar taib wrote:
A couple of comments.

"Kevlar" is a brand name. The actual material is aramid. So they're more or less the same thing.

Core woods - I've heard of basswood being used. Midwest sells basswood in sheets as thin as 1/32", I saw some in an art supply store the other day. Paulownia is also fairly easy to come by - if you have a Daiso store in town they might carry it (in sheets as thin as 6mm) or you might be able to order it. I saw some blocks of Jelutong for sale in the same art shop where I saw the basswood, problem is I'd have to re-saw it and surface-plane it. I've heard of poplar being used. Poplar is also a possibility. I personally use very thin birch plywood (1/64" or 1/32") as the face plies on my blades. Get these (and your balsa wood) from hobby shops or mail order from hobby suppliers, e.g.:

http://shop.balsausa.com/category_s/67.htm

End grain balsa! Available in different thicknesses, which wasn't the case when I was making blades.

http://www.specializedbalsa.com/products/end_grain.php

This one's in Australia! The balsa's probably from Papua New Guinea rather than Ecuador.

http://www.balsacentral.com/shop/

Cork? Look at all those reviews of the 729 Bomb blade - it seems very popular. Problem is, I don't think it's being made any more - can't find it on any of my direct-from-China websites. There's the new 729 A3 which also uses cork, might even be the same blade. I just bought some 1.5mm cork sheet at the Daiso.

Do a web search for veneer - you'll find online sources. Some of it, though, is far too pretty for use in table tennis blades! Here is one:

http://www.marwoodveneer.com/flitchstock/

My contention is a lot of the wood you see in table tennis blades is used because it's readily available from the veneer trade. Veneer seems to come in one standard thickness (about .025") with some variation. You'll find imperfections in pieces - splits, etc. And wide pieces are glued together.

Iskandar

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 Post subject: Where to buy
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2014, 15:55 
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Carbon/aramid/glass cloth:

http://stores.ebay.com/Elite-Motoring?_ ... 7675.l2563

They also have vacuum bagging supplies and epoxy resins. The hybrid carbon/glass and carbon/aramid cloths are interesting - you can, for instance, make your blades stiffer lengthwise than crosswise - or, if you lay the cloth diagonally, in one diagonal direction than the other. Mystify the evil blade inspectors who will see a red or blue/black line under the wood...

Cork handles for repairing/building penhold blades:

http://stores.ebay.com/BEST-TABLE-TENNI ... 34.c0.m322

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2014, 18:51 
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Can anyone here translate FE Carbon material description from Nittaku? (its in Japanese)
Link is here: http://www.nittaku.com/upload/pdf/13.pdf

Thanks!


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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2014, 02:29 
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Image

If I had to guess, I'd say it's a thinner/finer carbon cloth. The lighter grey strands running in one direction MIGHT be glass, but I doubt it. Note the coarser cloth (AD) - it too has the lighter grey strands, and I'll betcha it's all-carbon. There HAS to be one or two all-carbon cloths in there, after all, the grey is probably an artifact of lighting. The "3000" in the AD description probably refers to "3K" (i.e. 3000 strand) rovings (or "tow"), which is very standard in carbon cloth. If so, FE is made of 1K rovings.

This is a VERY interesting picture. The first fabric seems to be more of a scrim rather than a cloth. "G-" seems to be a very fine cloth of some sort. Aramid/Kevlar is usually yellow, but it apparently can be dyed red or blue. The red or blue might also be fiberglass. The third one and "L-" are therefore carbon-aramid or carbon-glass. UD is unidirectional carbon (stiff in one direction only). The second last one is what I've used - nonwoven carbon veil (or tissue). All the cloths seem to be plain weave, no twills here other than perhaps the grey stuff (I don't think it'd matter once the resin is cured anyway - twills are used mainly when curved parts are needed since they drape over curves).

The blue stuff, the red stuff, the grey stuff, the pale yellow - I'd hazard a guess that these are Vectran (i.e. arylate), Spectra/Dyneema, or glass. Note the blue stuff and the red stuff have "TM" and ® next to them - the katakana next to the blue stuff reads "Te-Ki-Sa-Ri-Fu-Mu" which doesn't make sense to me. (You can try the others - here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana. )

Iskandar


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