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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2014, 09:19 
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What does the large vertical arrow on the left refer to?

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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2014, 19:08 
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That's in kanji, don't even know how to begin to decipher it.. :oops: I'll see if I can get a Japanese-reading friend to figure it out. If I had to take a guess, it's faster to slower, or stiffer to more flexible top to bottom.

The yellow stuff is indeed Kevlar (Ke-Hu-Ra). So is the red stuff, apparently. I'm pretty sure I know now how to read "Carbon", so the third one (red and black) is Carbon-Kevlar. The yellow and black seems to be all-carbon, strangely enough.

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PostPosted: 26 Jan 2014, 23:15 
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THanks iskandar taib :up:

It does make you wonder how many people can actually tell the difference between all these materials. :o :o :o

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2014, 02:00 
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You learn a lot building model airplanes and reading about them.. ;) All manner of stuff about woods and glues and paints and fibers and plastics. Wikipedia's a HUGE help. (However, as far as telling the difference when it comes to playing - that's another matter. :oops: )

I'm beginning to think the blue stuff ("Te-Ki-Sa-Ri-Fu-Mu") is Vectran (i.e. what Butterfly calls "Arylate"). There's also a (Japanese) brand of aramid called "Technora".

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Last edited by iskandar taib on 27 Jan 2014, 02:41, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2014, 02:39 
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Incidentally, you know where that chart came from, right? It's the section on Nittaku's website for custom blades. That's right, Nittaku will build you a custom blade.

http://www.nittaku.com/products/racket/

(Near the bottom.)

Iskandar


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 Post subject: The Balsa difference??
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2014, 01:29 
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Since we're on the subject of properties of different woods - I've come across many, many posts were people talk about the difference in feel between balsa blades and non-balsa blades. Some people love them, some hate them, but everyone agrees there's something different about them. Since I make balsa blades and, well, used to play with them, I know more or less what they (or, at least, mine) feel like - I remember when I built my first one and playing with it, and really liking it compared to what I had before (a Yasaka 6X which suddenly went missing, hence prompting an emergency building of a blade over a weekend out of what I had in my workshop). But I can't really describe it, other than there's some sort of spring to the blade, while giving some sense of extra control, especially when hitting or looping.

So what exactly is it that's different about balsa blades? Why do some people say they can't play with them, while others say they're the cat's meow? What other materials produce blades with the same feel?

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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2014, 04:20 
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There is definitely something different about the balsa blades, but I dare to say that its not just the type of wood, but the the combination of other plies and rubber match. The whole thing has to work together and suit player stile.
I'm playing with Re-impact Barath, and since than I can not play with anything else. All other rackets feels heavy, with less control and speed, and I lack the confidence that I have with my setup.
I think there is nothing, even close, better for fast offensive game close to the table. When, much better players than me try my blade they immediately notice huge control and speed along with the great possibility of generating spin.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2014, 13:56 
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iskandar taib wrote:
The "3000" in the AD description probably refers to "3K" (i.e. 3000 strand) rovings (or "tow"), which is very standard in carbon cloth. If so, FE is made of 1K rovings.


Thanks Iskandar!

iskandar taib wrote:
Note the blue stuff and the red stuff have "TM" and ® next to them - the katakana next to the blue stuff reads "Te-Ki-Sa-Ri-Fu-Mu" which doesn't make sense to me. (You can try the others - here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana. )


I believe it reads Texalium in Latin.


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2014, 14:54 
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Aha.... That's a new one to me. Texalium.. which is? |(

Wikipedia to the rescue.. or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Halliburton

I'm pretty sure it's NOT aluminum-coated fiberglass. Or is it??

A more general web search reveals:

http://www.carbonfibergear.com/colored- ... -texalium/

But it is!!! It comes in several colors, too.

And it's not particularly expensive, either:

http://compositeenvisions.com/raw-fabri ... acuda-102/

About $20 a linear yard.

So there you have it. It's just cool-looking fiberglass cloth. I doubt it PLAYS any differently than glass cloth in blades!

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2014, 15:19 
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Wow.. these guys are amazing:

http://compositeenvisions.com/raw-fabri ... -fiber-97/

Scroll down, you'll find the 1K cloth Nittaku uses. It's 3.7 oz/sq. yd. (normal 3K cloth seems to be 6 to 8 oz./sq. yd.) A yard will set you back $85, but 36x50 inches will make you lots and lots and lots of blades. There's a sale on now for 30" wide 3K 5.7 oz. cloth for a measly $10 a yard, too.

What really tempts me, though, is the Zylon and Spectra fabrics. Zylon is probably very much like Vectran (what Butterfly calls Arylate). The Spectra is VERY light (2.6 oz.).

I do find it amusing that these days, in many places, people are using carbon fiber because it LOOKS cool, not because it's strong. So much so that they print vinyl decal sheets that look like carbon fiber (beware of these on ebay - they're useless in blades). This is the main driving force, I think, behind all these colored fabrics. Too bad you can't see it when you use some in a blade.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: The Balsa difference.
PostPosted: 30 Jan 2014, 16:54 
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Aha... From a different thread.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=18589

In particular:

Kees wrote:
In relation to the use of anti-spin rubbers balsa’s main problem is that its catapult is increasing disproportionately with increasing impact. In practice, this means that on low impact balsa has a dampening effect, absorbing speed, and an accordingly high dwell-time; at high impact it has an accelerating effect and an accordingly diminished dwell-time. This also means balsa’s throw will be lower with increasing impact. The effect balsa has, as a result of this, on sandwiched rubbers is that on low impact the sponge seems to be a slow thick one and at high impact it seems to be a thin fast one; the top-sheet seems to have more grip at low impact and less at high impact; and the trajectory of the ball on return will be flatter with increasing impact.


I do notice this sort of thing with my balsa blades. It does sound like something undesirable - less control during a push, less spin in a loop. I wonder if everyone would agree.

Quote:
It has to be added that the effects of balsa increase dramatically with the thickness of the ply or plies used in a blade. They are very small if the balsa plies are under 2.0 mm thick. Normally, if a balsa effect is wanted by a builder, the minimum thickness used is 2.5 mm. Plies over 4.5 mm thick produce a large effect.
So when playing with anti you would like to have a balsa blade (for example because you want it to be light-weight), using it for mid-distance defence, or the same combined with close to the table attack, which for regular players seem to be the two types of play which are practically compatible with balsa, you should probably look for a blade with a thin balsa core or two very thin inner balsa plies (combined thickness between 2.0 to 4.5 mm), offering a moderate balsa effect. For anything else, the balsa should be less than 2.0 mm thick, or not there at all.


My blades, by this measure, are extreme balsa - the core ply is either 3/16" (5mm) or 1/4" (6.5mm) while the outer plies are paper-thin - either 1/32" (0.8mm) three-ply birch or 1/64" (0.4mm) three ply birch. Technically they're seven ply, but when the outer plies are on the order of 0.15-0.3mm...??

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2014, 15:47 
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Hmmm.. Anyone care to translate? This is from Yinhe's catalog.

Image

(I was right .. my N-11 has Meranti/Lauan face plies.)

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 31 Aug 2015, 04:48 
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amyone know Matsushita pro model wood layers? i know the top layer is anigre but the others?


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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2016, 19:47 
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I'm trying to discover what kind of wood is this mysterious "planchonello" that Butterfly uses for the outer plies of Mazunov.
It seems impossible to find the exact wood, because under the name of Planchonella there are at least 100 species of tropical trees - as wiki learns us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planchonella
But following the first link from the species list, Planchonella Australis, we can see that this is also (in fact, mainly) named Pouteria Australis and that it has an "attractively yellow-patterned wood" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pouteria_australis
(the "yellow" detail could be relevant, as some reviews for Mazunov describe the outer plies as "yellow planchonello").
So I went back to wood-database.com (where my previous search for "planchonella" didn't return any result) for a new search, this time for "pouteria australis" and - surprize! - I found that it is nothing else than... Anigre: http://www.wood-database.com/anigre/

I wonder, then, if it's possible that "planchonello" to be, in fact, anigre, and that Butterfly choosed to use this more "exotic" name only for marketing purposes?! (Maybe it is important to notice, too, that there is no "anigre" in the composition of any of Butterfly's blades - at least from what I could read ).

Well, there is one thing that may contradict this assumption: namely that anigre - described as "good for DEF+ to OFF- depending on the other plies its used with" - doesn't seem suitable as the outer ply for a OFF+ blade, as Mazunov is.
But, on the other hand, the "planchonello" appears also to be the outer ply for a much more deffensive blade, that is Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk - and, in this case, the anigre could correspond very well.
Eventually, I think it's possible that the Mazunov's speed could come more from the extra-heaviness of this blade than from the exterior plies, which were designed for more control - and, if so, the choice of anigre seems very possible.


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PostPosted: 09 Sep 2016, 16:24 
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Man I love reading all this stuffs. I used to obsessed on wood materials on my guitars, alder for Stratocaster and mahogany for Les Paul guitars etc.

Now that I've read all that stuff bout balsa wood I'm definitely intrigued to learn more on other wooda beside ayous limba.

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