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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2012, 00:21 
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Blade: BTY Joo Saehyuk
FH: Donic Bluefire JP 02
BH: Donic Spike P1 1.0
The three blades are tested with same rubbers: LKT Pro XP 2,0 and Palio CK 531a ox. Victas has red Palio and black XP, Defplay and Def II have black Palio and red XP.

My LP-style can be described as all-round: combination of pushing, blocking, chopping, occasionally attacking. However, my game is oriented towards FH-looping, so that sometimes makes me more 'modern' than 'defender' :lol: . I'm not that much of a FH-chopper from distance. I play Provincial league in Belgium. We have a different rating system but I based on a rating comparison I found on another forum, I estimate currently my level is around USATT 2100.

The three blades:

Victas Koji Matsushita (156x165; 5,8; 88g)
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=19700

Donic Defplay Senso V3 (157x163; 5,8, 84g)

Butterfly Defence II (155x166; 6.4, 96g)
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=11330

Backhand side:
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P1170819 (640x428) (2).jpg [ 60.6 KiB | Viewed 6442 times ]


Forehand side:
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P1170820 (640x428).jpg
P1170820 (640x428).jpg [ 56.36 KiB | Viewed 6442 times ]


I’ve been using Victas blade since May 2012 and I’m accustomed to it more than to the other blades which might distort my evaluation. Yesterday, I played some sets and drills with all three. Some findings:

Victas Koji Matsushita

Some flex, no excessive vibrations but still a great feel for every stroke you make. Not soft, nor hard, in-between, maybe a bit more on the soft side. Outer plies are Limba, medial plies Japanese Cedar Fir and core probably Basswood or Ayous. The blade allows to keep chops very low. When I played the Victas after the DefII, my chops even went into the net. Great FH looping blade, good flex at high impact, nice feeling. Handle also feels great, a bit thicker than standard and nice grippy wood. For my game clearly the better blade of the three. This blade has a red Palio and a black (more tacky) XP, this could play a role too. Blade was on the expensive side when released (around €120 in Germany) but since it is available on a larger scale (from March 2013), prices have dropped to a more acceptable 70€. In Japan available for around 75$ [edited April 2013]

Donic Defplay Senso V3

Very flexible blade with a lot of vibrations. Thin and hard Anigre outer plies, soft Gabon medial plies and Basswood core. Rather hard feel when chopping with OX rubbers. This blade is head-heavy, even with light rubbers. This is probably because the handle is hollow and thus lighter than usual. This gives an odd feeling and a lot of vibrations. I think I’m going to put some lead or a coin on the bottom of the handle. Good dampening, but still less control then Victas when blocking or chopping. This while all strokes with Defplay feel slower than with the Victas. Not bad for FH looping game, but here I also prefer Victas. Cheap blade, about $50

Butterfly Defence II

In spite of the willow wood, this blade feels rather hard than soft to me. Harder than Victas. Biggest difference between DefII and both Victas as Defplay is that it is very stiff. Almost no vibration and flex, for me this means a lack of 'feel'. The blade has 5 willow plies from the handle to 1/5th of the blade, rest of the blade has three plies of willow. Outer plies as well as core are thicker than the other blades. Nice handle. Blocking is safe with a nice feeling, the willow wood absorbs the speed of the ball a bit. However this blade is fastest of all three, especially when it comes to FH-play and chopping. Least control of all three when chopping. Stroke for looping has to be slightly adjusted to be successful. Maybe a bit less spinny (lower dwell), but certainly faster. Better for fast loop-drives than for slower brush-loops. I need to get used to the speed and it requires some technical adjustment. Butterfly Defence III (viewtopic.php?t=21023&p=230615) is coming up and this has consequences for current pricing and distribution of Def II. The blade is sold out in Germany and costed €80 (about $100). In the catalogue for Holland & Belgium, the same €80 is the price. But the online butterfly webshop for Belgium & Holland from which I ordered it charges only €54 ($70)?! Australia also sells it for about $100 and in North-America it has already been discontinued for a while.

Comments and additions welcome!

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Last edited by Pipsy on 29 Apr 2013, 08:57, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2012, 04:23 
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Blade: Tsp Black Balsa 3.0
FH: t05 1.7boosted
BH: 388d ox
I agree the feel is hard with ox on the defplay,I put 2 damping foils under the ox 911 and chopping is much better although the rubber is now a little more spin sensitive

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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2012, 04:45 
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Thanks for the review, I was always interested in Victas blade and you've just answered many of my silent questions :D Now I have a strong feeling that there's no point for me to buy victas blade because it is slower than def II and I like attacking way too much :) Also I've grown to hate flex and vibrations in blade.. I know that it makes my defence weaker, but I can live with that.

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Setups (click on writings to read reviews):
1) Defence III / TSP P4 (0,5) / M3 (2,0)
2) Defence II / Joola Octopus (0,5) / M3 (2,0)
3) Ross Leidy "White Shadow" / P1R (1,3) / Hexer PS (1,7)


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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2012, 05:44 
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nice review!

thanks :rofl:

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Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita ST
FH: Xiom Vega Europe 1,8 mm
BH: DHS Cloud & Fog 1 mm

Blade: Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk ST
FH: Andro Rasant 1,9 mm
BH: Globe 979 0,9 mm


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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2012, 06:32 
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Let me say this about the Victas and the Def II. If you like the Def II you will love the Victas. It is the best pure chopping blade I have ever used. And with the correct FH rubber it can be a rocket. I used the Def II before the Victas and can't believe how much more control I have. You have to at least try this blade.

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Victas Koji Matsushita, Yasaka Rakza 7 2.0, TSP P1r Curl 1.5-1.7

USATT Rating: 1869

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2012, 07:12 
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How does the head size of the Victas KM compare to Butterfly's semi-large head size (Joo, MPS, Defence II, etc.)? Would rubbers cut for the latter not fit on the former?

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Butterfly Defence Pro ST, Butterfly Tenergy 64 (1.7), TSP Curl P-1R (1.0~1.3)


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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2012, 09:33 
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Blade: BTY Joo Saehyuk
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BH: Donic Spike P1 1.0
dazzler wrote:
I agree the feel is hard with ox on the defplay,I put 2 damping foils under the ox 911 and chopping is much better although the rubber is now a little more spin sensitive


After the league next year I'm going to try some sponged pips (FLII 1,3; Saviga 0.5), I think Defplay will be better for this. Could be that very soft OX-pips also match up well with it... Any experience?

Justas wrote:
Thanks for the review, I was always interested in Victas blade and you've just answered many of my silent questions :D Now I have a strong feeling that there's no point for me to buy victas blade because it is slower than def II and I like attacking way too much :) Also I've grown to hate flex and vibrations in blade.. I know that it makes my defence weaker, but I can live with that.

GrumpyJoe wrote:
Let me say this about the Victas and the Def II. If you like the Def II you will love the Victas.


Victas' flex enables very spinny loops, and still fast enough. It doesn't vibrate as hard as Defplay, but if you don't like flex, you are better off with Def II... I think it is a matter of habit and subjective preference. I liked Victas from the first hit and don't really like Def II (so far!) and Justas likes Def II, I doubt he will like Victas...

QuickDraw wrote:
How does the head size of the Victas KM compare to Butterfly's semi-large head size (Joo, MPS, Defence II, etc.)? Would rubbers cut for the latter not fit on the former?


About the same, I listed the dimensions in my review

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2012, 16:17 
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Blade: Tsp Black Balsa 3.0
FH: t05 1.7boosted
BH: 388d ox
After the league next year I'm going to try some sponged pips (FLII 1,3; Saviga 0.5), I think Defplay will be better for this. Could be that very soft OX-pips also match up well with it... Any experience?

I tried p1r ,meteor 8512,388d(all soft) and found it difficult to chop without anything under the pips,great spin reversal when blocking with 388d ox,and good reversal with p1 r ox,but you will need sponge to seriously chop

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PostPosted: 04 Nov 2012, 02:45 
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Very good review!
The Victas must be the better blade, as it is a specialized defense blade due to the know-how of Matsushita who is (I heared) managing Victas. The Donic hast to be poor in comparison as West-European-oriented manufacturers have no high-level defenders to advise them. This is different with Eastern-European oriented brands like Donier, Tibhar or Stiga, or even Joola. Butterfly is a hard case - favoured all over all of China, especially the Def II, it probably goes well with typical hard and very tacky Chinese inverted rubbers, especially the DHS Hurricane series.

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PostPosted: 07 Nov 2012, 21:55 
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Blade: BTY Joo Saehyuk
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BH: Donic Spike P1 1.0
dazzler wrote:

I tried p1r ,meteor 8512,388d(all soft) and found it difficult to chop without anything under the pips,great spin reversal when blocking with 388d ox,and good reversal with p1 r ox,but you will need sponge to seriously chop


And the 911 ox? I'm going to put Meteor 845 ox on it. It has a very thick undergummi, maybe that works!

Kees wrote:
Very good review!
The Victas must be the better blade, as it is a specialized defense blade due to the know-how of Matsushita who is (I heared) managing Victas. The Donic hast to be poor in comparison as West-European-oriented manufacturers have no high-level defenders to advise them. This is different with Eastern-European oriented brands like Donier, Tibhar or Stiga, or even Joola. Butterfly is a hard case - favoured all over all of China, especially the Def II, it probably goes well with typical hard and very tacky Chinese inverted rubbers, especially the DHS Hurricane series.


Donic also has an extended Research & Development departement and gets advice from Waldner and Persson. But indeed, they don't have defenders to advise them. Fabian Akerstrom tested Akkadi L2 after it's release but I don't believe he was actively involved in the development of material.

Why do you think Def II goes well with tacky hard rubbers? Because of it's stiffness?

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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012, 01:09 
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Nice review..
I have same setup on Donic Alligator combi blade...

This soft and stiff feeling it has is quiet nice...

Cheers
Geddk


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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012, 02:02 
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Blade: Tsp Black Balsa 3.0
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BH: 388d ox
Pipsy wrote:
dazzler wrote:

I tried p1r ,meteor 8512,388d(all soft) and found it difficult to chop without anything under the pips,great spin reversal when blocking with 388d ox,and good reversal with p1 r ox,but you will need sponge to seriously chop


And the 911 ox? I'm going to put Meteor 845 ox on it. It has a very thick undergummi, maybe that works
The 911 has hard stiffer pips and thick base,you can push and chop ok with it but I still feel the blade too much with ox,the damping foils add dwell and helps the chopping and pushing although the blocking is not as good,really good control with this one

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PostPosted: 08 Nov 2012, 23:18 
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Geddk wrote:
Nice review..
I have same setup on Donic Alligator combi blade...

This soft and stiff feeling it has is quiet nice...

Cheers
Geddk


Thanks. I guess it depends on personal preference but also of the main focus of your game. For blocking, hitting, short-game, the stiffer (& soft) blade will mostly suit OX pips better. For FH loops, chopping from distant, a more flexible (soft to medium hard) blade mostly suits OX-pips better.

BTW, red palio feels softer IMO

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012, 23:00 
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Blade: Victas Matsushita
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BH: Curl p1r 1.0
I will try to put some words in my thoughts about this blades.

First the DefPlay, Its been a looong time since I last played with it.
But i can say for sure, Its soooo flexy, its kinda slow but when u use the blades flex its became fast, when i hit the rigth spot i can even fel the blade flexing. Good control.

Now the Victas Koji Matsushita, I Played almost a year with it.
This Blade have some flex, and its medium hard.The speed is faster then DEFPLAY. With this blade i cant miss a loop, the spin produced in loops is soo great, and the chops are low and with good spin. Good Control.

And Finally The Defence II That i am playing rigth now, for about 4 months.
The blade is soft and stiff.the trowangle is kinda High. Its the fastest of them. Man with this blade i have soooooo much control in my chops, i can put them were i want, and i dont miss them, even when i am off guard i can still land them.
rigth now i am working in putting the same amount of spin that i get with victas. but with DEF II the diference betwin no spin and heavy chops is the most of the 3, cause people misread my chops all the time.

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TSP Curl p1-r 1.0


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2012, 21:02 
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So, pipsy, have you played more with Def II? Maybe your initial impressions have changed? :)
Give us an update :)

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Setups (click on writings to read reviews):
1) Defence III / TSP P4 (0,5) / M3 (2,0)
2) Defence II / Joola Octopus (0,5) / M3 (2,0)
3) Ross Leidy "White Shadow" / P1R (1,3) / Hexer PS (1,7)


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