OOAK Table Tennis Forum

A lot of comparison between Defplay and VKM have been made lately... Both are good defensive blades, some will prefer VKM, others will prefer DDS.

I think they're quite different, though;

- What I really really dislike about Defplay is the small handle, it feels like a tooth-pick in my hands. If you've got small hands, it might not be a problem (that's maybe why so many women and japanese players use it). VKM's handle is solid and rather thick.
- The hollow handle of Defplay is very light, so the blade becomes head-heavy
- Defplays vibrates and flexes a lot, while VKM has less vibrations and feels more stable. If you don't like vibrations or fles, don't buy a Defplay.
- VKM has a softer feel (esp. noticeable with OX), can be called 'mushy' sometimes. Go for JSH or Def II if you want a harder/stiffer/faster blade
- For me, Defplay still feels slower than VKM in most situations. But indeed, when looping, Defplay's flex helps loading and accelerating the ball with topspin
- For chopping: I only played Defplay with OX-pimples, it had a harder feel and chops were a bit less consistent and harder to keep low
- Defplay has a good price, it's a lot cheaper than VKM

This is a summary from my (of course, subjective) point of view. I will revisit Defplay with sponged LP and faster inverted in a few weeks

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Exclusive OOAK-Interview with Joo Saehyuk | Masato Shiono | Panagiotis Gionis

Ok, I've played 4 hours with the Koji blade now. I will compared it to the Defplay senso and OSP Immune for my perspective on how these 3 blades play.

Now in retrospect I have put the wrong rubber on the Koji, I used a sheet of DHS Skyline 3 (TG3). This turned out to be totally the wrong kind of rubber for the Koji, I wasn't expecting it to be so bad but I'll explain. On the Defplay I had the usual Haifu Whale soft (red sponge) on the forehand and .5mm 388D-1 on backhand. On the Koji I had TG3 neo (39 degree) and Dr Evil 1.0mm. I've been playing Dr Evil OX on the Defplay for about the last month. And the TG3 is my normal forehand rubber when using inverted and the rubber I use on the OSP Immune.. I've been using TG3 for a couple of years so I know very well how it plays.

Ok first the Koji, firstly the handle is much wider than I'm used to in a defence blade but it's ok. I have thin hands with a ton of space inside my grip so normally I like big handles but I find in defensive blades I like thinner handles.. Go figure. So the handle, it's OK but I prefer the handle on the Defplay and the Square straight on the Immune use to be my favourite handle of all time but again, these days I prefer the rounder handle on the ST Defplay.

Now the first thing I noticed when hitting a ball with the Koji was the very large amount of dwell coming from deep in the blade, it holds the ball very well and it chops notably lower then either the Defplay or the Immune. However it loops BADLY (with TG3). Straight away I was like oh man... wrong rubber for this blade, it's very mushy, has not much feeling and not much flex either, kind of feels dead or muted compared to the Defplay and the Immune which are both very elastic blades and both have good feedback, the Defplay doesn't vibrate much, just a normal amount, the Immune vibrates HEAPS, the Koji you can't really feel much at all. High feedback, high flex blades are what I normally play with to enhance my forehand loop. Overall the Koji is not a loopers blade in anyway, I did find a way to make the Koji behave on the forehand later in the day, I'll talk about that later.

Now the Defplay, this is more flexible, far far more powerful, more accurate and just better on the forehand, overall it's faster not much and mostly from the extra kick you get out of the flex but it is faster. It most definitely doesn't chop as well as the Koji because it doesn't have the same stay on the blade that the Koji has, however it's that exact same feeling that makes the Koji not so great on the forehand. The Koji has a very low throw when hitting forehands and not consistent again because you don't get the flex. I find chopping with the Defplay has a extra degree of difficulty but on the other hand they are _sometimes_ awesome. One thing to note is that I play with long pips very aggressively, actually I don't think most people would realise I was playing with a long pips if they watched me play with 388D-1, I play with them just like inverted most of the time with a topspin game on the backhand with a flatter variation to draw the net ball, I find that very easy, much easier than chopping. Until I can get far away from the table then I can chop with them. The Defplay because of it's flex makes top spinning long pips very easy. On the flip side of the coin you get basically zero reversal and dodgy effects from 388D-1 on the Defplay.

The OSP Immune, again it's a good looping blade, it loves hard rubber but I bet it works fine on soft rubbers too. It's a hard blade, harder than the Defplay or Koji. Chops heavier than the defplay on the forehand but harder to use on the backhand. It loops almost as well as the Defplay. It's a good blade but because it's so much heavier than the Defplay (it's 95 grams so about the same as the Koji in weight) (My Koji weighs 93 grams) and because the Immune doesn't really do any thing better I've been preferring the Defplay these days.

This is all from the perspective of playing a modern defender style with the main part of the game setting up the forehand attack. The Defplay for this style of game is pretty much a 10/10 where the Koji with hard Chinese rubber is one of the worst forehand looping blades I've used so even though it does chop well I'd only give it a 5/10 as a modern defence blade. However IF (when) I were to try a soft rubber on the Koji, a tensor, tenergy fx etc.. Something with some springy sponge where I don't have to use the blade and not being dependant on the blade being powerful then I think I'd rate the Koji much better and I will try that kind of rubber on it to see if it can loop well then. Now about the adjustments I made to make the Koji loop.. Later in the day I tried a very wristy Brian Berry style loop, that used basically no blade and really hammered the sponge and then the Koji looped quite wickedly well, had good spin and very good speed, but that's quite the opposite to the way I naturally loop which is a very heavy impact in the blade and the Koji just is not loop happy for that style.

Now If I were more defender rather than looper or modern defender and I was chopping from both sides MOST of the time and had a soft thin sponged rubber on the Koji, then I believe I'd rate the Koji a 10 and the Defplay an 8. I'd rate it higher than the Defplay because it chops better and if the world didn't revolve around your loop. Well then chopping becomes important . I could see using long pips on the Koji with a thin sponge and a soft forehand also in a thin sponge. I can see that working very well and that's totally the opposite of what I was using today so to be fair to the blade I will revisit it next week with that setup. The blade was just telling me, that's the kind of rubbers it wants, it was fairly obvious when using it.

The Defplay is quite happy with the hard tacky rubbers and the short pips so it's another kind of beast altogether. I've used both hard and soft rubber on the Defplay and it's a looping monster either way, right from the first time I used it I declared it the most spinny blade I've ever looped with and it still is. The Immune is not far away at all, the Immune is more spinny than the similar OSP Expert and that itself is a very spinny blade but not as much as the Defplay.

Anyway, that's where I'm up to so far. I think the Koji has potential when I have the right rubbers for it but the Defplay suits my natural game and existing rubber preference much better. The Immune... It's lovely but it doesn't really do anything amazingly well. Doesn't chop as well as the Koji or loop as well as the Defplay. I'll post back here once I find myself a soft rubber to try on the Koji to see if I can make it behave on my forehand.

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Donic defplay senso
Haifu whale soft (grips-euro)
Nittaku pimplemini 1.0mm

Thanks for the extensive overview of your impressions, Foam. I think indeed VKM is better with a softer FH rubber, but I will try it with DHS H3 soon to find out how it is with a hard Chinese rubber.

I agree with most things you say, but I wouldn't say VKM is not as much a looping blade. Again, this comes down to preference and playing style.

Maybe I haven't played heavily vibrating blades, but for me Defplay vibrates and flexes a lot. IMO, VKM also has some flex and some vibrations, possibly it is the bending (like you say 'digging in to the wood) caused by the softness of the outer plies I feel.

If you compare VKM with Defence II or many other Butterfly defensive blades, you will feel the flex difference. Def II has not a single vibration and is very stiff. The difference with VKM is quite big!

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Exclusive OOAK-Interview with Joo Saehyuk | Masato Shiono | Panagiotis Gionis

I'm playing VKM with vega pro at the moment. The chop is just epic (that's essentially the cause that makes me play with this blade), and the loop is ok... i can confirm defplay looped faster but i prefer koji's feeling in every type of shot. I guess if you are more looper oriented player (or you can handle a more aggressive rubber on defensive shots...) you'd like more extreme rubbers on this blade, such as bluefire 01/02/01 jp or tgy 64 (i also tried a VKM, belonging to a friend of mine, with tgy 05 1.7, and compared to Vega it had almost the same control but surely more power)... i guess limber 01 could be a good choice. Perhaps when i have money and time i could try BF (probably jp 01) or limber 01(i felt some enthusiastic comments about it...), but at the moment i'm pretty happy: it just lacks a bit of speed, but it will help me in improving my tecnique and physic...

The p1 is grippier on the matsushita than on the defplay, so better pushes, more stable chop... but it's harder to aggressively push.

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My Paddle
Blade: Butterfly Defence II FL
FH: Bluegrip V1 2.0 (red)
BH: Grass D.Tecs 1.5 (black)

Hi Revan,

I see you have the TSP Balsa 3.5 as a spare blade. I use a TSP Balsa 3.0 but I have not tried the VKM yet. How would you compare the two? Which is slower? More control? Better chopping? etc. Thanks!

Really appreciate the review foam (and Pipsy)

I'm back to the Defplay after 5 or 6 months of denying I'm a chopper.

Maybe later I'll compare the Defplay to the Chen Weixing but for now I'll say this:
It took me a while to find a forehand rubber for the Defplay. After trying many, I finally settled on 2.2m Air Illumina 40 degree. Not so much about speed or spin as it was getting the right feel. I think generally the Defplay is a little fussy about what rubbers it's dressed with......

I chop with OX Dtec and it seems to compliment the Defplay very well. Chops are reasonably low and control at or away from the table is really very good.

On the other hand, 388d....a rubber I generally like....was/is a nightmare for me on that blade. Probably because it doesn't reward my poor technique at the table like the Dtecs does.

Had to take emergency steps and use Stiga Destroyer (rather than the usual Dtec) on the Defplay last night.

Outstanding control close to the table. Decent chop but many were too high. Great feel because I think the base sheet is slightly thicker. (maybe)

Weird, but I think the Destroyer is actually faster than the Dtec.

Speaking of right rubbers for the defplay, I found hard Chinese rubbers work surprisingly well. Hurricane, skyline, galaxy moon etc. Pips side plays better with hard rubber on fh as well.

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Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

Hi, forgive me but i just saw the post!

Assuming black 3.0 and 3.5 are similar, i'd say that VKM is faster than balsa and more alive, but the control is not far from there. If you are completely a classic defender, i think Balsa 3.5 - 2.5 or tibhar def plus (which has balsa too) are the best overall, because they are so dead that you can really brush the ball with inverted and pips, creating massive spin and keeping everything on the table... but if you are more modern they could be really too slow...
I love the Victas because it gives me essentially the same consistency in defence that i have with a blade like balsa 3.5 (perhaps even a flatter throw), but it's much better at looping... and in the end i came to conclusion that blades like balsa are almost too slow even for pure chopping. Still, i have to say that i found balsa really beatifull with anti spin (tried with a yasaka antipower), but i never tried the other blades with anti...
Furthermore, balsa is so fragile...

Keep in mind that it's been a while since I played balsa with my "real" rubbers, but i'm quite sure about my feelings

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My Paddle
Blade: Butterfly Defence II FL
FH: Bluegrip V1 2.0 (red)
BH: Grass D.Tecs 1.5 (black)

Thanks Revan. Looks like I'll have to pick up a VKM as well. I see too many good reviews about it so I'll have to give it a try.

I used H3 Neo on VKM for a while. While serves and chops are very nice, but I felt my attacking possibilities were limited. Plus the feeling is not there. Better tune the H3 Neo with some sort of booster or use some faster rubber. Now I switched to TSP Ventus Speed on my forehand.

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Victas Koji Matsushita
FH: DHS H3 Neo
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 1.3 mm

I'd love to hear how you like that rubber... not many people have tried it yet.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

To be honest I played only 2 times with it and even not with my regular practice partner. So you should take my observations with a grain of salt.

The rubber surface has matt grainy finish and it's thin. The sponge is slightly harder but nowhere as hard as Hurricane or Tenergy or even Grip-S europe. On VKM it feels medium to me. I have red one with 2.0 mm thickness on forehand.

The surface has good grip. Serves and pushes are fairly spinny. Actually it feels like a classical rubber with a little bit more spin when the sponge doesn't come into play. Once the ball penetrates the surface and sponge is engaged then the tensor feel kicks in. The sponge is really fast even in 2.0 mm thickness. Coming from chinese rubber on FH I find it difficult to control. Sometimes the ball stays low but whenever ball sinks into sponge it shoots off. So you need to have a delicate touch.

Looping against no spin is good and counter looping is also good. Throw angle is medium to high. I didn't have opportunity to test looping against underspin. It grabs the ball fine and has some dwell time. So I think it should fair better against underspin too. One thing it does very well is guiding back the incoming topspin from a distance, sort of what CWX does. With H3N I couldn't do that very well, but with VSP it feels really nice.

FH chopping is good. But I think the credit goes to my VKM blade as I still haven't found anything that doesn't chop well on VKM

Blocking is OK. I found it somewhat spin-sensitive but not much. I think with further practice it should be manageable.

To sum things up, I think Ventus Speed is good for those who likes to have a high arc, spinny type of rubber and frequently plays from back of the table. And also for those who thinks they lack power on their FH side on their VKM, like me.

I'll update on the TSP Ventus page after I have a good understanding of it's characteristics. Thanks.

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Victas Koji Matsushita
FH: DHS H3 Neo
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 1.3 mm

Anyone have experience with a Haneyoshi as compared to a VKM? On a quick two minute hit the speed level of the former felt about right for still being able to attack without being too fast, but I would only be interested really if it was also more flexible and loop-oriented than the VKM. Yes, no?

I still haven't tried VKM but Haneyoshi is stiffer than JSH (6,1mm vs 5,9mm) so it's easy to say that Haneyoshi is stiffer than VKM which is more flexible than JSH.
I didn't like Haneyoshi too much because despite having a soft touch on the table, when chopping I found it didn't absorb well fast incoming balls. For me JSH blade with its low flex slows fast balls better.