OOAK Table Tennis Forum

When playing long pips without sponge (or with thin sponge), the blade is very important, perhaps even crucial. The last two years I have been trying a number of blades (Aurora, Tibhar Defense+, Yinhe Schild, Defplay Classic, Defplay, Defence II and Victas Matsushita Koji). I found out a few things about what blade characteristics most benefit my kind of game, oriented to spinny FH-loops and OX-chopping from mid and far distance (and only occasionally blocking opponent's first topspin or playing short)

IMO:

*Blades with a balsa-core usually don't fit well with FH-looping. However, some balsa blades are still very flexible (Tibhar Defense+) or moderately flexible (Defplay Classic). In this case, FH-looping is better.

*Light blades make the chopping game less stable/controlled. Same for looping.

*Carbon-blades do not give a good feeling with OX-pips and don't help chopping

*For the same reason, relatively soft (or medium hard for better reversal) outer plies match up better with OX-pips

*Oversized blades (around 156 x 165) help chopping a lot

*Blade shouldn't be too fast, but at the same time neither terribly slow


I think there are only a few blades that meet to these characteristics. Victas has certainly proven to be one.

Other (and cheaper) ones that draw my attention are:

- Butterfly matsushita/defence pro (disadvantage: very short handle)
- Stiga tube defensive
- Stiga allround oversize
- Yasaka sweeper
- Donier defense

What would you recommend and why?

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I have used Balsa blades ( Kris trimmed to 159x151) in both a heavy and light 72 gram blade. The lighter blade loops better and the ox LP rides the net pretty well. Control is good, but the long ball-net ball reaction to hard hit balls become inconsistant regardless of which one I used.
Now I use the Nittaku Monophonic blade. I have been using it for 6 weeks now and Fh spins pretty good and I can hit through the ball as well (Big Slam MAX rubber) I went back to GD Talon and found that while chopping with Palio CK531A was nice, the Talon has better control and nice low over the net returns. SPin reversal is good and while chopping closer to the table 5-7 feet I can return balls much better and add or subtract backspin mich better. Attacking with LP with this blade is also easy and chop blocking is deadly. If you like to chop off the table mid distance 5-9 feet this might work. The blade head is not as manuverable as my smaller head blade but the return on investment with control and chops does catch many by surprised. I am now finding more players ranked in the 2000 ratings wanting to Hit. Cool.

Peace GIG

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*IT IS NOT LOGICAL TO PLAY WITH LONG PIPS*
THOUGHT OF THE WEEK: If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.


New blade set-up... Nittaku Monophonic with Dawie 388d-1 ox and Big slam max ( really like this one) down to FH rubber selections--I like it better than talon
flaired handle and 90 grams

yinhe LQ1 or LQ2-both have decent FH speed. LQ1 is harder with less flex. Both chop well in oversize blades. The LQ1 is probably a little better for OX pips. Good price (50 dollars US).

Thanks Bob, but both Kris as Monophonic are stiff blades and that's exactly what I wouldn't find suitable for my game...



I have Yinhe Schild and what I really hated (beside the Carbon feel) was the handle. It is very thin and I got cramps in my hand. Handles should be big and firm enough such as Def II or Victas. And from what I've read LQ1 is VERY hard and fairly stiff.

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Exclusive OOAK-Interview with Joo Saehyuk | Masato Shiono | Panagiotis Gionis

I've used both a Defence Pro and a YinHe LQ-2, although I haven't tried OX pips on either.

The Defence Pro is a bit flexier, and has a medium-soft feel. It has high dwell time, and insane control when chopping. It's not overly slow (I'd say it's about ALL). It's very easy to loop with, and although your loops won't be super powerful, you can really load up the spin. It pairs well with all sorts of rubbers. The LQ-2 is less flexy (but still flexible) and has a pretty hard feel. It has medium dwell time, and although I didn't use it for that long, it did seem nice for both chopping and looping. You need a soft sponged forehand rubber for it, though. It's a bit faster as well, maybe ALL+.

Oh, and I wouldn't worry about the handles on either. The Defence Pro handle is only 5mm shorter than most ST handles, and is pretty stout. It feels great in the hand. The LQ-2 handle is shaped similarly, and the cork veneer makes it very comfortable.

Incidentally, I'm selling one of my two Defence Pros and my LQ-2 here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21111 Let me know if you're interested in one or both.

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Shakehand Modern Defense
Butterfly Defence Pro ST, Butterfly Tenergy 64 (1.7), TSP Curl P-1R (1.0~1.3)

Blades that have alot of dwell time can spin really well for your FH. since I have been playing with LP on my BH side, I have found that blades that flex work well chopping off of the table ( DOnic Def-play example) I also found chopping with that blade with ox lp rubber was pretty good. You had to really power the FH a little. Back to the BH LP, the donic Def-play has some flex and feedback, it seemed to work better with .5mm sponge. the chops came back slow and high and good backspin. attacks were ok at best using the BH LP. I found if caught too close to the table and trying to return with the BH on a hard hit ball was harder for me not to go long. Using ox the ball seemed to sail past my contact point and become more a liability than an asset. I dont even use the Kris blade any longer, the control and speed of the Monophonic is perfect. I can loop, drive, and the backspin created with the chops controlled faster, with more deadly backspin. and also attacks, blocks, and chopblocks very well. We had a guy here in michigan by the name of Paul Burns back in the mid 70-80's, his dad was CHuck Burns. Well Paul was a defensive player that did not need LP to chop with. I asked him once about his game. " he told me the idea of giving more time for the other player to make adjustments and hit the ball back was Counter productive. He would chop the ball back faster and you did not have time to react, he also said the less time the ball is on the blade and rubber the better. This guy almost always finished in the top 4 in the state. I lost to him three straight. My point is this, take your core game * 80% loop 20% BH set-up, chop, or whatever you do well. and make your set-up compliment those parts of your core game. I read alot in here and watch alot of videos, Leatherbacks game is fun to watch, as is a few other guys as well, one thing I have learned. If you plan on chopping off the table, dont expect alot of net ball returns from a 2000+ player, spin manipulation and causing long balls off the table seems to get more point in the upper ranks than net balls. this is of course MHO.


Peace GIG

_________________
*IT IS NOT LOGICAL TO PLAY WITH LONG PIPS*
THOUGHT OF THE WEEK: If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.


New blade set-up... Nittaku Monophonic with Dawie 388d-1 ox and Big slam max ( really like this one) down to FH rubber selections--I like it better than talon
flaired handle and 90 grams

Thanks Michiganbob. There are a lot of people saying that Defplay is better with (thin) sponge than with OX-pips. I will try it with Meteor 845 that has a real thick undergummi. It is said to be a great chopping rubber.
I understand Chuck Burns point, but I just enjoy the control that a 5ply wooden blade with some flex and medium outer plies provides. It prevents me from making errors in OX-defense and enables me to prepare forehand loopings.

That's why I'm curious about the flexible (and relatively soft) blades below:

- Butterfly matsushita/defence pro
- Stiga tube defensive
- Stiga allround oversize
- Yasaka sweeper
- Donier defense
- Spinlord Defender (harder outer plies)

Any thoughts, recommandations?

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Exclusive OOAK-Interview with Joo Saehyuk | Masato Shiono | Panagiotis Gionis

I am trying to learn to loop on FH, and play defensively with 0X LP on the BH. I am trying to be able to attack from either side. I've played with about 10 different blades in the last 18 months, including Giant Dragon Kris, Butterfly Defence II and Nittaku Monophonic, which eventually both got cut down to normal size. I just couldn't seem to move an airplane wing sized blade covered with rubber where it needed to be quick enough to get to the hard, fast loops to be able to chop them back. Maybe its because I'm old and slow, but consider that potential problem.

What I think I've learned is that on BH I can't have too fast a blade, or the chops won't land. The BH side needs a relatively hard surface to get good spin reversal, but has to be slow enough to absorb hard hits, and still fast enough to whack the ball with a flat smash. The Monophonic is about right, maybe a tad too fast, on BH. My Monophonic is cut down to a normal size which likely makes it a bit faster, probably ALL+, than it was supposed to be.

On FH, though, to win points, I need more speed. The Defence II could chop like a dream, but against the 2000 level players I was dead meat because the would attack my chops and I couldn't smash the ball hard enough to win a point if my life depended on it. The Monophonic is somewhat faster, but again, vs the better players, its still very difficult to get a ball by them. The thing I've noticed trying to loop is that a bit thinner, with a bit more flex helps. I've been experimenting with custom 2 speed blades with different woods and thicknesses, and my suggestion is that you choose the wood to mate with the rubber you play best with. I play best with a softer sponge, so I need a somewhat harder top plies for it to feel good. And I like to flat smash when I get the chance, so I need something fast, like a layer of balsa underneath to give the ball bullet like speed when I do. The loop against topspin shot, which I am now starting to be able to hit, seems to work better if the blade has more flex and thick/softer sponge, and at least some tackiness on the topsheet to grab the ball initially. I know, I'm trying to make up for my lack of perfect stroke and timing with optimal equipment, but I hope that eventually as the stroke and timing improve, my loops will get that much better. The way I tell if my smashes or loops or chops are good is if I see fear my opponent's face when I hit them, and if they come back or not. Looking at your list, the ones I know of on it are all slower than the Monophonic based on the reviews I've seen.

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--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

Did you ever try TSP Balsa (Fitter) 2.5?

Gambler Oversize Kevlar (with custom modifications)

My suggestion may logically seem to defy all of the points in the OP concerning the best qualities for such a blade. And the Gambler OSK did wind up on my shelf of blades that "didn't work" for a long time. Besides, the "hock" shape made it nearly impossible for me to twiddle which I do a lot.

But then one day I said "what the heck"...I made a pattern from another blade that didn't have the "hock" shape, traced it on the OSK, took a jigsaw and sandpaper to get rid of the "wings" and reduce the overall head size a bit all around just to see what would happen.

Well, the blade took on a wholly new character and due to the shape change I could twiddle with it now. With LP Ox it still works great for blocking and chop blocking. But the cut-down added increased flex that actually helps my deeper chops. And on the forehand...well it was a slow brick before but now with even just a medium-speed rubber (Nittaku Hammond Pro Beta) I can even do a decent loop and still it blocks and smashes as well as before (maybe better).

The blade is cheap so if one is willing to do a little "carpentry" I think you will find the Gambler OS Kevlar can work for both OX chopping and good fh looping.

 

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Member of Charlotte Table Tennis Club, Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
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Bringing up an old thread here but I was just reading that for OX you want a relatively hard blade to help spin reversal but something not too fast. So what about Victas Koji Offensive for OX chopping?

I think it depends where you're chopping from. I use a fast blade because I get maximum reversal and effect from a blade with little dwell time. This works well close to the table and one or two steps back.

Further back I have to remember not to hit too hard as the lack of sponge and fast blade tends to result in the ball travelling quite far.

If you want to be chopping repeatedly from deep, I think a slower blade is probably better, but if you prefer to be near the table and only drop back if forced, a quick blade is good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
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I'll throw in my little opinion. I play a pushblock style so take the following with a grain of salt. But I like Sauer & Troger's Fire Starter. I've tried tenergy 64, rakza 7 and rakza 7 soft. Looped great. But I can't handle the touchy short game (especially with the tensors). So I went back to H3... But it was a bit of a chore to loop with it. I now have Skyline TG2 neo and am loving it.

Anyways, if you get a chance I would recommend the Fire Starter.

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