OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hello Fellow Table Tennis Players,

We have a table at work and I also wanted to go to various Table Tennis clubs/bars where I can play and bring my own blade. My coworker and I wanted to upgrade from the "standard" blades which are included.

Basically this is what I want in a blade:
1. I want it to be extremely light like the original blades that came with the table. I've used 3 different upgrade blades ranging from $50-$200 and they were all too heavy and thick when compared to the original. This makes it harder to hit the ball fast.
2. I want to feel the ball and hear the clack sound (kind of like I do with the originals)
3. I want the rubber to be fairly thin. I find that when it's too thick it's good for rebounding but when I try to swing it hard it doesn't whack the ball the way I like.
4. It has to be made in Japan, Europe, etc... I don't want any paddles that are outsourced (personal choice).
5. Budget is flexible but I might be willing to buy a used paddle on eBay if it means getting a better one.

Ones I have looked at so far are OSP, some of the Nittaku and Butterfly models that are made in Japan and Sweden, etc... It doesn't have to be the most professional paddle out there but just a really good upgrade to the original paddles while keeping that crisp clack and light weight. This is the best picture I could find of something similar to the original paddles I have: https://img0.etsystatic.com/012/0/63917 ... 6_6nni.jpg

I did a little research and the type of paddles that I am currently using are the "classic" Hardbat style rackets. So I want it to be like a hardbat but obviously a professional level one since I love that clack, speed, and feel I get with them that I found some of the more "modern" style ones with the thick rubber don't give me...

Hi, welcome to the forum !
I just want to comment about the weight and some online store in Japan. You can check with iruiru and ttjapan , and any type of blades have some tolerance in weight, sometimes it can go up to 10 grams or more. So when you have made your choice, you should ask what alternative weights are available, and you can choose the weight that is suitable for you. If you want an extremely light blade, you might be looking at blades with balsa core.

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Expert II crwi C-Pen
Red Acuda P1

Try a Dr. Neubauer Barricade blade with Dr Evil rubber on both sides.

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The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
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My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

If you live in the USA, call Paddle Palace, a large retailer, their equipment experts will guide you well.

My Hardbat set up below is good and inexpensive. I don't play much with it but beat low level advanced players a couple of days ago who use inverted rubbers.

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Panda Drive / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max / Play right-handed
XVT balsa carbon 10mm / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Globe 979 Long Pips OX / Play Left-handed shakehand
Stiga Def Wood / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH GD CC LP OX .. Play Left-handed
Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
HARDBAT / Shakehand Hock 3 ply / Friendship Dr Evil OX .. Play Right-handed

Welcome to the forum, its a great resource.

You can refer to this list http://www.hardbat.com/hbCoverings.html to see approved hardbat coverings. Dr Evil is often mentioned are a really good.

As far as bat weight, I think you'd find that with two short pimples on it, its going to be pretty light anyway and you shouldn't have any trouble hitting smashes no matter how heavy the blade is. I think you'd be better finding a blade that goes well with hardbat which you can find answers to that in the hardbat section of the forum http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=47.

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

You are one of the few players that I have heard saying they want to duplicate the cheap blades that come with some tables. The problem I see is that when you got to clubs to play, you are going to see a whole different game. Unless I miss my guess, right now you guys are just hitting the ball back and forth. When you get to the clubs, you are going to find that about everyone plays with lots of spin that you don't normally see. Because of this, I would recommend you DON'T spend a lot on your first blade.

Now some things you may not know yet. Rubbers come two basic ways. Pips out, and smooth. They also come with different kinds of sponge backings. I'm not even going to try to explain how sponges verry- it won't help you. But know that you can get sponge in different thickness, or no sponge at all. From what you are saying right no, I would suggest you get pips out and OX (which is code of "no sponge")

Now there is a huge selection of pips out rubber. You will see some as "long pipis" others as "short pips" this doesn't actually relate to how long the pips are, but the ratio of the length to the thickness. Personally, I would recommend you get long pips on one side and short pips on the other side so you can learn now each plays then when you find your style change one of the rubbers to what you like.

Now for the blade. See if you can get the Friendship 729 bomb. They are cheap (so when you find your game you can replace it) and they will give you the performance (speed) you seem to be asking for. Or see if you can get a LKT Instinct or Instinct +

For rubber I would suggest you try 729 Dr Evil on one side and Butterfly Feint Long III on the other. If you don't mind the price, use Grass D.TecS in place of the Feint Long.

Now I don't think this will be the paddle you will be using a couple of years from now if you start playing at clubs, but it will great for you at work and it will let you stay in some games at the clubs.

As for where its made, don't worry about that on your first paddle. you will have to spend a lot more money for your set up if you worry about where everything is made, and you will no doubt want to change paddles as you learn more and play agint different kinds of players.

Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it!

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Ratt Factory "ghost" (oversize kiri, balsa, kiri) innova UL/ Tibhar Grass D.tecs
Ratt Factory "mouse" (mahogany, kiri, kiri, kiri, mahogany) T05/ giant dragon talon
Tibhar Furious/ juic 999/ Tibhar Grass D.Tecs
Yasaka balsa plus/ RITC 837/ RITC 755 (friendship)
Newgy 1040 robot

Welcome to OOAK!

I would definitely recommend Dr Evil - it's a a fantastic all round hardbat rubber, at a great price. Great control, capable of generating spin when you need, and will give you excellent feeling. In terms of a blade, MNNB's recommendation of the Barricade is a good one. You want a nicely-made blade that doesn't ring too much, sacrificing control. An alternative at the same price, but from the same manufacturer, is the Kung Fu. The Barricade is a slower blade, optimised for keeping the ball on the table, and chopping. The Kung Fu is an all-round blade, and will be a bit quicker, and more suited to a game with a mixture of defensive and attacking shots. Both are excellent.

If you're based in Europe, I recommend Japsko for rubbers and blades. The service is excellent, the price is good too. They specialise in pips out play. They don't have the Kung Fu, however, but another good European outlet, tabletennis11, does. Both have Dr Evil.

Good luck, and keep in touch!

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I fairly strongly disagree here, with respect. For a new player, used to social play with traditional hardbat, moving to LP on either FH or BH would be a confusing and retrograde step. Full disclosure: I play with OX SP and OX LP. I love the style, but I wouldn't wish it on a new player, and it's taken me three years to become anywhere close to effective with LP.



Good option - cheap, light and fast, but I'd suggest perhaps on the lively side for a beginner.



Good call. Japsko have one or both of these.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I sugested one LP rubber because for just "hitting" it will little reading of spin and depending on the angle he hits at, could cause some problems with the other player. He is currently using (My guess) a hard bat wirl almost zero friction short pips. By having short pip which he would most likely stay on his back hand, he is getting the almost the same thing he has now. The evil will slow the bomb down a little but he will get all the speed and sound he is looking for. The long pips side will let him go on offence, without having to be super concerned with the incoming spin. I would guess that he would experiment with each side and see what suits him.

Frankly, I thing his first problem will be trying to return about any serve when he goes to play at clubs. I very much like pushing a lp against underspin server s (which I'm betting he will see a ton of) Of course I'm making a lot of guesses here. BNut in MHO this is what he will see trying to make the jump from rec play to club pay. At any rate, the blades are cheap as is most of the rubber, so he can change as he makes progress. Of course I'm often wrong...

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Ratt Factory "ghost" (oversize kiri, balsa, kiri) innova UL/ Tibhar Grass D.tecs
Ratt Factory "mouse" (mahogany, kiri, kiri, kiri, mahogany) T05/ giant dragon talon
Tibhar Furious/ juic 999/ Tibhar Grass D.Tecs
Yasaka balsa plus/ RITC 837/ RITC 755 (friendship)
Newgy 1040 robot

Thanks for all the great advice. So how would the Barricade and Kung Fu compare to the Valor ones I have seen? I really like these Dr. Neubauer blades and I believe they are made in Germany and somewhat reasonably priced The Valor's seem a bit more expensive. Any other suggestions? What about the American or Jaapnese Hinoki blades? Or those Maestro blades from Lithuania? Or the OSP blades? Or Mr. Bosko's, etc... Also why buy the cheaper Dr. Evil rubber when I can get the Andro Classic, Valor Premier, Yasaka A1-A-2 (or Cobalt). They are only $5-$10 more and made in Japan, Germany or UK depending on the model. I can fork out a few extra dollars for something that is vastly superior?

Finally - if I want to switch between hardbat and modern rubbers. I can use any of these bats for that I'm guessing? But my real question is do I have to unpeel it and then glue it back on or can I buy a spongeless modern rubber and use the glued on hardbat rubber as a sponge?

Well if your biggest goal is to just spend a lot of money, why don't you just order a blade from Ross? (http://rossleidy.com) Of course his blades are so great looking, you may not want to put rubber on it at all.

OK back to planet earth.

So you want to spend a bit more money then I son't think you can go wrong sticking with Dr and get a Kung Fu ( unless you want to up to the Hercules) The good Dr. makes great stuff, you can't really go wrong. Put Killer pro on one side and Terminator on the other.

Now I don't want to be rude, but at your level of play one rubber is NOT going to be "something that is vastly superior" to another.

The cheap paddles use a permanent glue to put rubber on. When you move up to better blades you will be using water based glues made for Table tennis. Its used like contact cement in that you coat the blade with it and coat the back of the rubber with it and let them both dry. then you will put the rubber on the blade and use something to roll it out smooth. This allows to use a rubber, then peal it off and use a different rubber. With a little bit of care you can reuse rubbers and move then between different blades. I have a number of rubbers that have been on dozens of different blades You won't get that much reuse out of OX (no sponge) rubbers, but you still should be able to re use them.

The other option (used a lot with OX sheets) is a glue sheet. This is simply a big piece of double stick tape. Peal off the paper backer and stick it to the OX rubber, peal off the other paper backer and stick it to the blade. I'm a total klutz with this stuff. BTW I would never use this on a rubber with sponge

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Ratt Factory "ghost" (oversize kiri, balsa, kiri) innova UL/ Tibhar Grass D.tecs
Ratt Factory "mouse" (mahogany, kiri, kiri, kiri, mahogany) T05/ giant dragon talon
Tibhar Furious/ juic 999/ Tibhar Grass D.Tecs
Yasaka balsa plus/ RITC 837/ RITC 755 (friendship)
Newgy 1040 robot

I've not used any of these alternatives. I wouldn't mind trying Andro Classic, but it'd be different from Dr Evil. I've used that extensively, and I like it very much. It does everything well, is readily available and great value. You won't get something vastly better, nor is Chinese equipment accordingly 'vastly worse'. To be fair you are more likely to have a quality control issue with 729 than Butterfly, but in my experience it is very rare. Speaking of Butterfly, if you wanted to go with a big brand name, you could consider Butterfly Orthodox. As cgswss suggests, Dr N also do a good range of excellent quality spongless pips, of various aspect ratios, and you'd be supporting a much smaller company, who represent firm kindred spirits to the inhabitants of this fine forum.



If you think you're likely to switch between hardbat and inverted with sponge, I would suggest just getting a second blade. However, speaking as one with much bitter personal experience in this area, I would counsel against switching too often, because the feel and feedback are radically different, and your timing will be everywhere each time you switch. I would advise you to pick one path and stick with it. I'm a big fan of hardbat - I love the way it feels, and I love the deliberately maverick feel it has about it. Modern rubbers generate much much more spin, but arguably at the cost of control and feedback.

Depending on your level and your ambitions, I would say you're likely to be fine with either. A consideration is if you have plans to get lessons from a coach, or join a coaching class, you'll probably find the coach less comfortable teaching you with hardbat than modern sponge and inverted. And yes, objectively, modern inverted rubbers are 'better', but there are many many very good players who play with hardbat-type setups, and some are even as high as in the top 50-100 in their respective countries, or better. So, if you like the feel of your current budget stuff, I think you could have a lot of fun pursuing hardbat with better quality equipment.

One final comment: you've not yet mentioned where you're based. But there are dedicated hardbat tournaments in the USA and France in particular. In the USA there's an approved list of harbat rubbers, of which Dr Evil is one, but which does not include any Dr N rubbers. If you plan to play in these, you should restrict your choice accordingly.

Very best of luck!

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I agree but it's a personal choice. I would rather pay (literally) a few extra dollars for a rubber that's not outsourced since IMHO that alone would make it a better value for money. Any of them are readily available almost everywhere I've looked. I just need to ask around to choose between them (Andro Classic, Valor Premier, Yasaka A1-A-2 (or Cobalt). My style of playing is I do a lot of looping and sometimes the loops turn into smashes. I'm not very good at spinning but a rubber that lets the ball spin or blocks spins would be good.



I agree. My biggest problem with any of the modern rubber bats I've used is that you don't get the same feel. For me a good comparison is driving an automatic or tiptronic vs. a real manual with a clutch pedal and real gearbox. You get so much more feel and balance through a manual transmission even if many more recent automatics are superior in terms of speed, fuel economy, etc... It's the feedback and feeling I get - just like typing on a real keyboard instead of a touchscreen. For me playing table tennis is about the satisfaction and I don't get that unless I can feel the ball hitting the paddle and hear the clack and be able to slam it (the best is when you slam the hardbat against the net and it lets itself hit the opponents table with no chance of recovery).



That's not my biggest goal. The mass produced Butterfly's and even the Dr. N's cost as much or MORE than the entry level American Hinoki, OSP, and Valor blades (all of which are handcrafted in the US). Some of the blades I have seen from these manufacturers are $50-$100 vs. $100-$200 for an equivalent "name brand" one that is more mass produced. Yes I WISH I could afford the blades from Ross, they are truly the most beautiful I have ever seen.

I'm based in the US and for now I want to go to some table tennis centers and play for fun, etc... but once I get my skill up I want to play in tournaments without really having to upgrade my blade. I want it to be a part of me if that makes sense.

I guess I should have described my playing style as well. Basically - I'm somewhat of a defensive player but I like to loop and slam a lot too. When I loop and return with a slam, I usually twist my body a bit and put all my energy into it so that the other person can't really recover from it. I prefer playing backhand most of the time because of this and I love having to move around a lot instead of just staying in place, it makes for a more exciting game (not to mention a bit of a workout). I try to deflect spins a lot and wait for the right moment to slam. It would be great to get a bat/rubber combo that's fast enough for slams but also good enough for blocking spins and making loops easier. Like I said - I feel that most of the modern bats with rubbers I've used are way too heavy (especially at the top). I know I need some weight for it to be fast and be able to slam though... Basically I want the best hard bat/rubber combo that can (if not rival) at least get close to someone playing with a modern rubber with the same skill set as me.

OK. Well you can use the search facility of this forum to find out what has been said about each of them. I'm afraid I don't have any experience of any of them.



I'm a little confused by this...

If you do a lot of looping, you are, by definition, generating a lot of spin. I'd be very surprised if you're doing this with Walmart hardbats.

I'm not sure what you mean by a rubber that lets the ball spin. The ability to spin the ball is a function of the extent to which it grips the ball as the rubber brushes it at great speed, imparting spin. Rubbers without sponge, and with short pips tend to impart relatively little spin, but are also relatively insensitive to spin - that is if your opponent spins the ball and you put your bat in the way, the effect of the spin will be less than if you were to use a rubber with sponge, or one which is so-called 'inverted' - that is the pips face in, and the rubber has a smooth surface. You can't really have both - if you want to be able to generate a lot of spin, you also need to allow for the fact that your rubber will also be greatly effected by incoming spin.

If you want a rubber that 'blocks' spin - that is which is not sensitive to it, and perhaps returns the spin to your opponent, you would be looking at a long pimpled rubber, or perhaps an anti-spin. These similarly are not very effective at generating spin by themselves.



I know exactly what you mean. But you need to understand that there's a trade-off here. You can get great feedback and excellent control, and a real feel for the game, when you use hardbat, but you will struggle to be able to play a powerful spin-based, looping game using this sort of equipment.

My honest advice is to get something inexpensive and representative - for hardbat, pick one of the rubbers, and slap them on a reasonable all round blade. Then, using the same blade (perhaps get two) stick some generic inverted rubbers on. There are heaps and heaps of options. I'm much more familiar with Chinese rubbers than European or Japanese, so I won't attempt to advise you on this. Then spend a few weeks playing with each, and decide which you enjoy most.

Hope that helps.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Just one bit of advice. If you're going with hardbat, get the rubber and the blade at the same store and GET THEM TO ASSEMBLE THE RACKET FOR YOU. I don't know if Dr. Evil has the cloth backing (like some of the Yasaka and Butterfly hard rubbers do) but trying to glue spongeless rubber onto a blade is a major pain in the rear if the rubber does not have the cloth backing. You'd likely ruin a couple sheets if you don't know what you're doing, and end up with bubbles under the sheet even if you don't ruin them. This is doubly true if you try it with the new-fangled water based cements (which you don't really need - plain old rubber cement's fine). Let the store deal with it.

Not sure what you mean by "outsourcing". A lot of table tennis equipment is OEM'ed, - all the rubber made in Germany, for instance, is made by one company (ESN), for instance, even if there are dozens of brands. I'm sure at least some of the blades sold by European brands are OEM'ed in China (Sunflex makes a LOT of blades, even though they're sold under different names). Do you mean Chinese equipment as "outsourced"? Dr. Evil is Chinese, by the way.

I suppose what you eventually end up with will be determined by what you want to do - as several have mentioned here, if you ever start playing seriously at a club you'll find it's a very different game than the one you find in basements and pubs. A hardbat can get you far, but you'd have to learn a LOT of new strokes anyway - high level hardbat play (which can take two forms - against other hardbat players in organized hardbat competition, or against sponge players in other settings) is very different from dinking the ball around. Lots of videos on YouTube.

I wouldn't recommend trying to play with both hardbat at sponge, switching back and forth - especially not in the beginning. If you want to make the switch to inverted sandwich (which is what over 90% of players use) do it full time, at least for a while.

Iskandar