OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 20 Oct 2017, 00:03


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 24 Aug 2017, 23:28 
Offline
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 13:38
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington DC
Has thanked: 402 times
Been thanked: 331 times
Blade: Joo Se Hyuk
FH: Secret Flow Chop (1.5mm)
BH: FL3 (1.3)/P-1R (1.5) Test
To all users of the JSH blade.

I keep coming back to this blade to try as I want to incorporate more offense into my game. I however, cannot get over how flipping heavy this thing is! SO much so that I sold my first one, and then tried to sell the one I have currently.

I play best with the defplay/VKM and a lighter setup. I have heard people make comments about heavier being more stable for chopping, etc.

But again, the weight is an issue, and how I'm missing because my timing is off (which I'm sure I'll get used to) and how I cannot react to surprises like I can with my defplay. I keep feeling like I'll adjust, but sure doesn't seem like it. During practice, I feel the stability, and the potential on offense for sure. But in a game situation, the weight and speed seem to be very detrimental.

People have commented that they see more "potential" in the JSH setup with grippier pips. They fear my attacks more. The block is far better for sure. But I reacting to the unexpected is one of the hallmarks of defense and I don't feel like I react quickly enough.

Did you all experience this when you changed to the JSH blade? I feel like I want to love it, but just don't. I was schooled by my practice partner and just chalked that up to new setup and not being used to it. But I didn't expect it to be quite as bad as it was. I've changed setups in the past and never suffered such resounding defeats. But again, I see the potential in it, so I reluctant to abandon it all together.

I'd like to hear thoughts from the group as a whole on this. It's been touched on in other posts in the past about how to lighten the blade, but I want to know for those that started using it, how long before you got used to the difference in weight? My blade is over 100 grams, I forget the exact weight.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!"Rating: 1615

Projects: Player Equipment Grid
Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


Top
 Profile  
 

 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2017, 00:19 
Offline
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 13:38
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington DC
Has thanked: 402 times
Been thanked: 331 times
Blade: Joo Se Hyuk
FH: Secret Flow Chop (1.5mm)
BH: FL3 (1.3)/P-1R (1.5) Test
Here, Roy was having the same struggle:

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=30903&start=15

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!"Rating: 1615

Projects: Player Equipment Grid
Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2017, 00:39 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 18 Apr 2016, 21:29
Posts: 493
Has thanked: 57 times
Been thanked: 45 times
Blade: DEFPLAY(CUT DOWN)
FH: S/P TSP L CATCHER 1.8
BH: BEST ANTI 1.8
I managed to buy a JSH from e bay at a very good price.I have never tried it yet but it does feel heavy.
My season restarts in 3 weeks and im using a cut down defplay with slow anti and s/p.
I cannot fault this set up .I do try other blades with the same rubbers but always go back to the defplay for security .
I will try the JSH and let you know mate.
Ill be very surprised if i keep it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2017, 09:54 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 24 Apr 2011, 11:24
Posts: 262
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 60 times
Blade: Hadraw Shield ST
FH: tsp super spinpips chop 2
BH: badman reloaded ox
45 gram invert + 20 gram ox long pips + 100 gram blade weight? 165 total, ain't too bad.

It is really heavy though. With 2 inverted rubbers, it's generally over 190 at least. Many joo blades are 110 grams or so though. That'd be 200+ grams in total.

I have a 99 gram one, and it's still too heavy for my preference. The anti spin is maybe 35 gram, with another 45 for the invert that brings it to be about 180. Still not a bad weight. I have to assume most people would use a really light/OX rubber on at least one side.

I think you can use the victas koji offensive or the yuto blade and not be missing out on much, gear wise.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2017, 11:20 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2013, 00:48
Posts: 972
Location: Boston
Has thanked: 275 times
Been thanked: 199 times
Blade: VKM ST
FH: VS>401
BH: Air UpUpUp 1mm
I think there are other ways of incorporating more offense into your game: faster/heavier blade is one obvious option, improving FH stroke is another (weight transfer, hip action, arm snap, wrist, whip, you name it....). Faster FH rubber may be an option too.

One other advice I keep hearing, especially for defenders: focus on placement instead of speed. I guess, given our slower paddles, you need to pay more attention to other aspects of the shot.

I'm more or less in the same boat - I do have JSH combo lying around and try it occasionally, but keep going back to my main Defplay setup so far, because my reflexes are tuned for it, I suspect. One probably can adjust, but it will take time. Also, come to think of it, I used to have a bit of problem with 'tennis elbow' a year or so ago, and wonder if setup weight had anything to do with it back then.

_________________
USATT: 1693| League: 1813


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2017, 22:23 
Offline
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 13:38
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington DC
Has thanked: 402 times
Been thanked: 331 times
Blade: Joo Se Hyuk
FH: Secret Flow Chop (1.5mm)
BH: FL3 (1.3)/P-1R (1.5) Test
skilless_slapper wrote:
45 gram invert + 20 gram ox long pips + 100 gram blade weight? 165 total, ain't too bad.

It is really heavy though. With 2 inverted rubbers, it's generally over 190 at least. Many joo blades are 110 grams or so though. That'd be 200+ grams in total.

I have a 99 gram one, and it's still too heavy for my preference. The anti spin is maybe 35 gram, with another 45 for the invert that brings it to be about 180. Still not a bad weight. I have to assume most people would use a really light/OX rubber on at least one side.

I think you can use the victas koji offensive or the yuto blade and not be missing out on much, gear wise.

OX on the Joo is terrible. I play 1.0 p-1r as I feel anything less than 1.0mm is very shrill in feeling. The blade is very hard and has a high pitch sound to it with OX pips.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!"Rating: 1615

Projects: Player Equipment Grid
Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2017, 22:34 
Offline
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 13:38
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington DC
Has thanked: 402 times
Been thanked: 331 times
Blade: Joo Se Hyuk
FH: Secret Flow Chop (1.5mm)
BH: FL3 (1.3)/P-1R (1.5) Test
pgpg wrote:
I think there are other ways of incorporating more offense into your game: faster/heavier blade is one obvious option, improving FH stroke is another (weight transfer, hip action, arm snap, wrist, whip, you name it....). Faster FH rubber may be an option too.

One other advice I keep hearing, especially for defenders: focus on placement instead of speed. I guess, given our slower paddles, you need to pay more attention to other aspects of the shot.

I'm more or less in the same boat - I do have JSH combo lying around and try it occasionally, but keep going back to my main Defplay setup so far, because my reflexes are tuned for it, I suspect. One probably can adjust, but it will take time. Also, come to think of it, I used to have a bit of problem with 'tennis elbow' a year or so ago, and wonder if setup weight had anything to do with it back then.

The thing that always makes me flirt with other paddles than the Defplay is how it blocks and it's feel on offense. When I play with the Joo, there is a clear uptick in the potential of my offense, but I don't have the timing or technique for it. I've been working on the FH for a while now, so it's always the thing I work on, and I'm improving slowly.

One thing I noticed. Your comment about reflexes rings true...so true. With the DP, it is so light that you can chop and recover without proper technique. Meaning, if you have a habit of not recovering your paddle to shoulder on the BH side early enough, you can still compensate by quickly adjusting and making a quick movement to get the chop stroke in. With the Joo blade, it is so heavy that if you aren't trained habitually to get into the ready position and cock the paddle to shoulder on the BH side at the time the ball being hit by your opponent, the bat's weight will not allow one to quickly make up for poor recovery and not having the bat in the correct position to chop. So, if anything, it's revealed a hole in my technique. I've discovered that with the Defplay, I have been using my quick twitch muscles to get the chop done rather than recovering to the right bat position.

There is that, and one needs to play with it long enough to get used to the weight and the change in timing. This is why I've quickly gone back to what I'm comfortable with, the defplay...which I'll likely do again. Seems you and I have the same tendencies.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!"Rating: 1615

Projects: Player Equipment Grid
Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 25 Aug 2017, 22:55 
Offline
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 13:38
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington DC
Has thanked: 402 times
Been thanked: 331 times
Blade: Joo Se Hyuk
FH: Secret Flow Chop (1.5mm)
BH: FL3 (1.3)/P-1R (1.5) Test
I think I recall in Joo's interviews that he trains with a heavier bat, which is an interesting concept and I wonder if this is to improve his bat speed when going to his normal (and still heavy) setup.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!"Rating: 1615

Projects: Player Equipment Grid
Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2017, 02:53 
Offline
Comeback Chopper
User avatar

Joined: 29 Feb 2012, 09:48
Posts: 314
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 66 times
Japsican wrote:
To all users of the JSH blade.

I keep coming back to this blade to try as I want to incorporate more offense into my game. I however, cannot get over how flipping heavy this thing is! SO much so that I sold my first one, and then tried to sell the one I have currently.

I play best with the defplay/VKM and a lighter setup. I have heard people make comments about heavier being more stable for chopping, etc.

But again, the weight is an issue, and how I'm missing because my timing is off (which I'm sure I'll get used to) and how I cannot react to surprises like I can with my defplay. I keep feeling like I'll adjust, but sure doesn't seem like it. During practice, I feel the stability, and the potential on offense for sure. But in a game situation, the weight and speed seem to be very detrimental.

People have commented that they see more "potential" in the JSH setup with grippier pips. They fear my attacks more. The block is far better for sure. But I reacting to the unexpected is one of the hallmarks of defense and I don't feel like I react quickly enough.

Did you all experience this when you changed to the JSH blade? I feel like I want to love it, but just don't. I was schooled by my practice partner and just chalked that up to new setup and not being used to it. But I didn't expect it to be quite as bad as it was. I've changed setups in the past and never suffered such resounding defeats. But again, I see the potential in it, so I reluctant to abandon it all together.

I'd like to hear thoughts from the group as a whole on this. It's been touched on in other posts in the past about how to lighten the blade, but I want to know for those that started using it, how long before you got used to the difference in weight? My blade is over 100 grams, I forget the exact weight.


Japsican,

As you can see in my signature I also use a Joo blade with P1R on the backhand.

For me, the stability gained by the heavier blade is important. The benefit is most marked when chopping back fast loops or kills. When I chop fast loops or kills, with my VKM blade, I can feel the blade bending in my hand. For me this is uncomfortable. I assume that part of this discomfort comes from the realization that the amount of bending will depend in part how far the ball is from the center of my blade. In contrast, with the Joo blade, this bending is much smaller, enabling me to confidently and comfortably chop back most fast loops and kills.

Also, I find the Joo blade much better for counter looping at a distance from the table than with the VLM blade. Even though my chopping is much, much better than my counter looping, I feel that similar stability arguments apply here.

I know that everyone is different and a slower, softer blade may be better for you, but I am very happy with my Joo blade.

I hope that this is helpful.

Steven

_________________
Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk
Butterfly Tenergy 80-FX 1.9mm
TSP Curl P1R 1.4-1.7mm
--------------
Returned to table tennis September 2011
Canada National Team Member, 1973-1975
--------------
1972-1987
Brickell Balsa/Birch 3-ply Blade
Yasaka Mark V 1.5mm
Joola Toni Hold AntiTopspin 2.5mm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2017, 04:46 
Offline
Full member
User avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2009, 02:32
Posts: 68
Location: MD, USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Blade: JSH
FH: Tenergy 05
BH: Curl P-1R
Let me add my 2c here.

I've been playing exclusively with JSH ST since March of this year, so ~6 months. Prior to JSH, I played with VKMO for quite some time, and prior to that I was a blocker/attacker learning LP & playing Acoustic (Off).

My FH rubber has been T05 2.1 for more than a year now. Prior to using T05, I played with a 64 on VKMO & Acoustic and that's how I got into the Tenergy game. T05 gives me more spin, it's harder and not as bouncy compared to the 64. Both are fast.

My current LP is P1R 0.5 which is one and only LP I played since I got into real chopping. My very first LP was 388D1 which I had on the Acoustic. I'd played a few matches with P1R in a thicker sponge (1.0mm) but it just seemed too fast for me - I guess I am not that good of a chopper or maybe I overreacted and gave up too soon :) pgpg might still have my old setup - vkmo & p1r 1.0 :)

As for my current setup, I like everything about it and will stay with it for the next several months. The blade IS hard, and the 0.5 thickness doesn't help you either, however, it chops like a dream. My coach (whom you probably know as he's the only chopper coach @mdttc) chops with it from time to time and his chops are just plain deadly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2017, 06:45 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 00:31
Posts: 253
Location: Maryland, USA
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 38 times
Blade: VKMO
FH: Yasaka Mark V GPS Red Max
BH: TSP SSPC2 Black 1.9mm
Dang! A JSH is over 100 grams?! :o
Anyways, I don't use a JSH as you can probably see (VKMO, which was still ridiculously heavy for me at first), but I will say that when it comes to weight, the very first day I used my setup, I couldn't even push the ball without my wrist collapsing from how heavy my racket was. The second time I played with my setup, I was able to at least fish the ball back on my FH, but aside from that, serving and pushing, I couldn't do anything else. I think that you just have to keep playing with something that's entirely new to you until you get used to it; For me, it took about a month. Now that I'm used to it, everything is so much easier to do and I can play quite comfortably. No hyperbole included ;) :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2017, 08:32 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 24 Apr 2011, 11:24
Posts: 262
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 60 times
Blade: Hadraw Shield ST
FH: tsp super spinpips chop 2
BH: badman reloaded ox
Japsican wrote:
I think I recall in Joo's interviews that he trains with a heavier bat, which is an interesting concept and I wonder if this is to improve his bat speed when going to his normal (and still heavy) setup.



Joo also doesn't do much blocking at the table, so he has more time to readjust and get the blade ready for chopping. If you play close to the table, I think a big heavy setup would be detrimental, undoubtedly! You mostly use more wrist and such at the table blocking, for angle changes and whatnot. Off the table chopping... even heavy blades aren't too bad.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2017, 13:51 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2013, 17:01
Posts: 435
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 52 times
Blade: Joola CWX
FH: T05 2.1
BH: Agenda 1.0
Japsican wrote:
Here, Roy was having the same struggle:

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=30903&start=15

Yeah, I have not get friends with JSH blade, as mine weights 102g, compared to CWX blade's 85g. My teammate uses reduced Joo with thinner FH rubbers (like Yanus df 1.5), so the weight is less. I don't like thin inverted rubbers for my looping. :(

One alternative that I am revisiting is Spinlord Ultra Carbon Def blade. It has similar speed and stiffness as JSH, but lot less weight and the best handle available. See viewtopic.php?t=29529&p=312454


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2017, 22:34 
Offline
Full member
User avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2009, 02:32
Posts: 68
Location: MD, USA
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Blade: JSH
FH: Tenergy 05
BH: Curl P-1R
I often read folks complain about JSH's weight. Mine is 177g fully assembled with edge tape.
Here is a breakdown:
- blade itself ~100g
- T05 max ~ 48-49g
- p1r in 0.5 ~23-24g
The rest is a very thin layer of Free chack 2 + edge tape.
If I ever to remove rubber, I always remove the glue buildup. I have also given up on the grip tape to save some weight. Finally If I know I am pushing my limit ( say with a heavier JSH - I just picked up a 104g one) I glue my fh rubber slightly "higher" than the normal spot tight against the handle, maybe 1-2 mm higher. This way the cut rubber would be a few grams lighter.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2017, 23:42 
Offline
Sitting on Defence
Sitting on Defence
User avatar

Joined: 09 Feb 2007, 04:42
Posts: 1368
Location: USA
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Blade: Victas K.M.
FH: VS>401 2.0mm
BH: Dtecs 0.5mm
Japsican wrote:
I think I recall in Joo's interviews that he trains with a heavier bat, which is an interesting concept and I wonder if this is to improve his bat speed when going to his normal (and still heavy) setup.


This would surprise me because studies have shown using a weighted bat tends to result in a slower swing afterwards--at least in baseball. Also he would need to adjust his timing and technique too much as he adjusts between the two...

_________________
Grab a free copy of the only training and nutrition guide written specifically for the table tennis athlete: The Table Tennis Player's Guide to Health and Fitness.
Feel free to PM me with any health, training, or nutrition questions :)

Kit: Victas Koji Matsushita | Victas VS > 401 2.0mm | Dtecs O.5mm


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next




All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: