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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 01:20 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
Japsican wrote:
I think I recall in Joo's interviews that he trains with a heavier bat, which is an interesting concept and I wonder if this is to improve his bat speed when going to his normal (and still heavy) setup.



Joo also doesn't do much blocking at the table, so he has more time to readjust and get the blade ready for chopping. If you play close to the table, I think a big heavy setup would be detrimental, undoubtedly! You mostly use more wrist and such at the table blocking, for angle changes and whatnot. Off the table chopping... even heavy blades aren't too bad.

Chopper not a blocker....bump and block from time to time, but definitely a blocker.

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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 01:23 
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birding&table.tennis wrote:
Japsican wrote:
To all users of the JSH blade.

I keep coming back to this blade to try as I want to incorporate more offense into my game. I however, cannot get over how flipping heavy this thing is! SO much so that I sold my first one, and then tried to sell the one I have currently.

I play best with the defplay/VKM and a lighter setup. I have heard people make comments about heavier being more stable for chopping, etc.

But again, the weight is an issue, and how I'm missing because my timing is off (which I'm sure I'll get used to) and how I cannot react to surprises like I can with my defplay. I keep feeling like I'll adjust, but sure doesn't seem like it. During practice, I feel the stability, and the potential on offense for sure. But in a game situation, the weight and speed seem to be very detrimental.

People have commented that they see more "potential" in the JSH setup with grippier pips. They fear my attacks more. The block is far better for sure. But I reacting to the unexpected is one of the hallmarks of defense and I don't feel like I react quickly enough.

Did you all experience this when you changed to the JSH blade? I feel like I want to love it, but just don't. I was schooled by my practice partner and just chalked that up to new setup and not being used to it. But I didn't expect it to be quite as bad as it was. I've changed setups in the past and never suffered such resounding defeats. But again, I see the potential in it, so I reluctant to abandon it all together.

I'd like to hear thoughts from the group as a whole on this. It's been touched on in other posts in the past about how to lighten the blade, but I want to know for those that started using it, how long before you got used to the difference in weight? My blade is over 100 grams, I forget the exact weight.


Japsican,

As you can see in my signature I also use a Joo blade with P1R on the backhand.

For me, the stability gained by the heavier blade is important. The benefit is most marked when chopping back fast loops or kills. When I chop fast loops or kills, with my VKM blade, I can feel the blade bending in my hand. For me this is uncomfortable. I assume that part of this discomfort comes from the realization that the amount of bending will depend in part how far the ball is from the center of my blade. In contrast, with the Joo blade, this bending is much smaller, enabling me to confidently and comfortably chop back most fast loops and kills.

Also, I find the Joo blade much better for counter looping at a distance from the table than with the VLM blade. Even though my chopping is much, much better than my counter looping, I feel that similar stability arguments apply here.

I know that everyone is different and a slower, softer blade may be better for you, but I am very happy with my Joo blade.

I hope that this is helpful.

Steven

Thanks, but was the difference in your perception as stark as mine? I'ts outlandishly different from any other setups I've tried. Defplay to VKM to Sword 309 to even a standard sized blade did not seem as big a jump. But with the Joo, I feel like I'm swinging Thor's hammer.

I feel the stability during drills, however I am less accurate in both drills and play when chopping, so clearly I'm not used to the JSH. But I can't get over how different it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 01:25 
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Joo Se Kev wrote:
Japsican wrote:
I think I recall in Joo's interviews that he trains with a heavier bat, which is an interesting concept and I wonder if this is to improve his bat speed when going to his normal (and still heavy) setup.


This would surprise me because studies have shown using a weighted bat tends to result in a slower swing afterwards--at least in baseball. Also he would need to adjust his timing and technique too much as he adjusts between the two...

Could you link me to those studies, because I could have sworn I read the opposite.

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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 01:26 
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Roy wrote:
Japsican wrote:
Here, Roy was having the same struggle:

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=30903&start=15

Yeah, I have not get friends with JSH blade, as mine weights 102g, compared to CWX blade's 85g. My teammate uses reduced Joo with thinner FH rubbers (like Yanus df 1.5), so the weight is less. I don't like thin inverted rubbers for my looping. :(

One alternative that I am revisiting is Spinlord Ultra Carbon Def blade. It has similar speed and stiffness as JSH, but lot less weight and the best handle available. See viewtopic.php?t=29529&p=312454

CWX is the only blade I have yet to try for any length of time. I tried a club mate's bat but he had an odd setup (Reflectoid 1.5mm and 755 OX) so not an accurate account of that blade.

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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 01:33 
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notfound123 wrote:
My FH rubber has been T05 2.1 for more than a year now. Prior to using T05, I played with a 64 on VKMO & Acoustic and that's how I got into the Tenergy game. T05 gives me more spin, it's harder and not as bouncy compared to the 64. Both are fast.

I find the 64 faster for sure, and bouncier but less spin-sensitive but still very spinny.

notfound123 wrote:
My current LP is P1R 0.5 which is one and only LP I played since I got into real chopping. My very first LP was 388D1 which I had on the Acoustic. I'd played a few matches with P1R in a thicker sponge (1.0mm) but it just seemed too fast for me - I guess I am not that good of a chopper or maybe I overreacted and gave up too soon :) pgpg might still have my old setup - vkmo & p1r 1.0 :)

I'm surprised you don't find the 0.5mm too shrill and ox-like on the JSH. Maybe I need to just get over it, but I didn't like the feel. I played okay with it though.

As for my current setup, I like everything about it and will stay with it for the next several months. The blade IS hard, and the 0.5 thickness doesn't help you either, however, it chops like a dream. My coach (whom you probably know as he's the only chopper coach @mdttc) chops with it from time to time and his chops are just plain deadly.[/quote]Wang Qing Liang coached me for a time years ago. Been a while, but I have been thinking of scheduling some time. Hard because it's pricey as a non-member, and a 40 minute drive. He's great though.

PM you name, have we met? Maybe we can connect at a tournament or league at any of the DC clubs. I'm at WDCTT and NOVTTC for the most part. I work in DC, live in NOVA.

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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 03:22 
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Japsican wrote:
I'm surprised you don't find the 0.5mm too shrill and ox-like on the JSH. Maybe I need to just get over it, but I didn't like the feel. I played okay with it though.

I vaguely remember reading about Japanese choaches stating that they start out all junior choppers at 0.5 -- to master the basics. I sorta agree with that. Hey - Jian Li just played here in MD over the weekend and I am pretty sure he was using an OX or an extremely thin sponge from what i could tell. I watched him warm up and his chops were from another planet.

To be honest, if I chop with a full chopping motion, i.e. think of a textbook chop, I can hardly even feel the blade, it's all pips and sponge. This is just me. I may try a 1.0 again one day but I don't think I am ready yet.

Japsican wrote:
PM you name, have we met? Maybe we can connect at a tournament or league at any of the DC clubs. I'm at WDCTT and NOVTTC for the most part. I work in DC, live in NOVA.

I will send you a PM


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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 06:29 
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Japsican wrote:
Joo Se Kev wrote:
Japsican wrote:
I think I recall in Joo's interviews that he trains with a heavier bat, which is an interesting concept and I wonder if this is to improve his bat speed when going to his normal (and still heavy) setup.


This would surprise me because studies have shown using a weighted bat tends to result in a slower swing afterwards--at least in baseball. Also he would need to adjust his timing and technique too much as he adjusts between the two...

Could you link me to those studies, because I could have sworn I read the opposite.


Here's one:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11883550

There was another too, if I recall correctly, but I seem to have lost the link.

I go into further detail as to why I think a weighted paddle is the wrong approach in my book (see sig) and I offer an alternative as well :)

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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 03:53 
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Just an update...I am finally starting to see some signs of adjustment. I'm feeling more comfortable and winning some games. I went ahead and changed to a slow, very grippy LP in P-4, which seems to have helped with my comfort level on the JSH. Having a slower bh is very much a necessity with this blade. The P-4 sponge is sssllooww and awesome. I essentially hate it on any other blade, too slow.

This makes me want to try FL3 again, which I hated on the defplay, but I did love the throw angle on chops...very horizontal strokes actually make the ball go lower assuming you swing fast enough...just like a loop but in the opposite direction. Several high level folks (Filus, Guan come to mind) use FL3 on the Joo. But I do love the way P-4 feels, so I may stick with it. Plus it's light...much lighter than P1R and likely about the same weight as the 0.5mm.

Oh, and it's pgpg's old sheet... :lol: Not sure how used it was before we traded. I wonder how much more grippy a new sheet is...the FL3 (from my memory of it) felt more grippy than P-4. Too bad there are no vids of pros that use the P-4 in 1.0mm (which is very different than 0.5 that shiono used).

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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 08:10 
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If you like the P4 on the Joo , you will love the F3 in 1.0mm, butter sofe and you can chop all day, with the 1.0 you can add or take some spin on or off!!


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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017, 02:26 
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Chopper88 wrote:
If you like the P4 on the Joo , you will love the F3 in 1.0mm, butter sofe and you can chop all day, with the 1.0 you can add or take some spin on or off!!

Did you prefer it vs. the P-4? Why?

When I tried it on the Defplay, vs. the P-4 I felt that the FL3 played a bit different for sure, but that they were in essence identical. The biggest difference to me was that FL3 had a more horizontal trajectory (more throw, but in opposite sense vs. loops) and thus stayed lower over the net if you had greater bat speed than the incoming rotation of the ball. That was the PRO, which is a big one, especially when doing horizontal inverted-style pushes vs. under. But the con was that it had a little less top end spin (or so I thought) vs. P4. P4 is just slightly ever so more slippery, so probably borrows a little more spin from the opponent.

Conversely, if you were too slow, the same grip would cause the ball to pop up more than P-4....but ever so slight for both. I wish someone would gift me some FL3 in Red so I can compare.

I only tried the 1.3mm FL3 and not the 1.1mm.

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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017, 02:33 
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Japsican wrote:

...
Oh, and it's pgpg's old sheet... :lol: Not sure how used it was before we traded. I wonder how much more grippy a new sheet is...the FL3 (from my memory of it) felt more grippy than P-4. Too bad there are no vids of pros that use the P-4 in 1.0mm (which is very different than 0.5 that shiono used).


It probably saw 2-3 months of action, playing 1-2 times a week. Not that much use, I think. I also got impression that FL3 is grippier relative to P4, but don't take it as a gospel.

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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017, 03:28 
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Japsican wrote:
Chopper88 wrote:
If you like the P4 on the Joo , you will love the F3 in 1.0mm, butter sofe and you can chop all day, with the 1.0 you can add or take some spin on or off!!

Did you prefer it vs. the P-4? Why?

When I tried it on the Defplay, vs. the P-4 I felt that the FL3 played a bit different for sure, but that they were in essence identical. The biggest difference to me was that FL3 had a more horizontal trajectory (more throw, but in opposite sense vs. loops) and thus stayed lower over the net if you had greater bat speed than the incoming rotation of the ball. That was the PRO, which is a big one, especially when doing horizontal inverted-style pushes vs. under. But the con was that it had a little less top end spin (or so I thought) vs. P4. P4 is just slightly ever so more slippery, so probably borrows a little more spin from the opponent.

Conversely, if you were too slow, the same grip would cause the ball to pop up more than P-4....but ever so slight for both. I wish someone would gift me some FL3 in Red so I can compare.

I only tried the 1.3mm FL3 and not the 1.1mm.


Like you just described, the F3 is lower when chopping and even better if you use full motion or like I would put it"put something on the ball" I might have a used 1.3 red what's your address, I'm traveling for work, be back Monday, I will let you know if I have one , but to me the Joo works the best with P1 in 1mm, I'm been using that combo the past couple of years, before it's the defplay with P1 F3 etc


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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017, 04:49 
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Chopper88 wrote:
Japsican wrote:
Chopper88 wrote:
If you like the P4 on the Joo , you will love the F3 in 1.0mm, butter sofe and you can chop all day, with the 1.0 you can add or take some spin on or off!!

Did you prefer it vs. the P-4? Why?

When I tried it on the Defplay, vs. the P-4 I felt that the FL3 played a bit different for sure, but that they were in essence identical. The biggest difference to me was that FL3 had a more horizontal trajectory (more throw, but in opposite sense vs. loops) and thus stayed lower over the net if you had greater bat speed than the incoming rotation of the ball. That was the PRO, which is a big one, especially when doing horizontal inverted-style pushes vs. under. But the con was that it had a little less top end spin (or so I thought) vs. P4. P4 is just slightly ever so more slippery, so probably borrows a little more spin from the opponent.

Conversely, if you were too slow, the same grip would cause the ball to pop up more than P-4....but ever so slight for both. I wish someone would gift me some FL3 in Red so I can compare.

I only tried the 1.3mm FL3 and not the 1.1mm.


Like you just described, the F3 is lower when chopping and even better if you use full motion or like I would put it"put something on the ball" I might have a used 1.3 red what's your address, I'm traveling for work, be back Monday, I will let you know if I have one , but to me the Joo works the best with P1 in 1mm, I'm been using that combo the past couple of years, before it's the defplay with P1 F3 etc


Ohh...that would be cool. Be happy to give some $ or trade too. I'll send you a PM.

I already tried the P-1R on the Joo and it was okay, but I didn't love it. I am a long time user of P-1R, in fact, I'm most familiar with that rubber than all rubbers. I loved it on the defplay and the VKM, so I think for me it's the pace difference of the blade and LP combo. Who knows I may end up back there since I'm most familiar with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017, 07:37 
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I am sorry for sound grumpy, but,

For those Who said that JSH are heavy,

Did You cook with one handed frying pan (0.5 kg empty, at least) at home? :P

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 Post subject: Re: Joo Blade Revisited
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017, 12:27 
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But you don't swing the frying pan around vertically do you ??? Trying to add spin to a tossed Pancake ? Or a Waffle ? Or an omlette ?? ? Surely that cant be good for the breakfast :lol: ?

Maybe thats a GREAT idea !!! Iron Frying pan Technique ! Do shadow drills with the Frying Pan at home. And then its like that Iron bat :rofl: You go to the club after having breakfast and toss some of the whipper snappers around with your now TRAINED Iron hard reflexes and smashes ! :rofl:

:lol: Just pray to god your family doesn't see you up early morning swinging the pan around :lol:

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