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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2018, 03:46 
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Greetings,
I'm looking to protect my new wood blade when I receive it. I was looking for Varathane water-based polyurethane and the person at the store recommended Minwax polycrylic. Looking online there doesn't appear to be a difference from the point of view of protecting wood. Both seem to do a good job with polyurethane being recommended for high traffic areas.

Any opinions on this from a TT perspective?

Thanks!

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PostPosted: 25 Jun 2018, 07:41 
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Whatever is cheaper
You are really only staining the blade with it, not sealing it properly like a floor

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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 08:49 
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Hmm... Doesn't staining imply that you're imparting color to the wood? I thought the purpose of applying polyurethane to the blade was to seal it to facilitate removal of the rubbers without damaging the wood. Is this incorrect?

Thanks!

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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 12:16 
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Poly SEALS the blade from moisture. Once applied, water will bead right off.

Woodworkers Magazine tested all commonly available finishes and poly came out on top. It is the most water proof and scratch resistant finish.

Some blades with many coats, the rubber cement glue did not stick well. This was easily fixed by Lightly sanding with #400 wet or dry to just break the finish a little. Still water proof.


Properly done, it will NOT affect the way the blade plays.


Best way I found was to dip the corner of a rag, (old tee shirt) in the poly. Rub it in the wood including the edges. Then wipe it off with the dry part of the rag. Two or three coats can be applied depending on how open the grain.


I have experimented with up to 10 coats, table top finish. I have done hundreds of blades, many home made, many factory.


There are many that will tell you it will RUIN the blade. NOT true if done like above. We proved this with blind tests of sealed blades. It takes many coats to change a defensive blade and a lot more to change an offensive blade. Plus, if someone WANTS a slightly faster blade, sealing can be a fix.

Some woods tend to splinter when removing rubber. Sealing with poly stops this very well.


Stains are used to change the color of wood. Some may seal, some may not. The purpose of stain is to change the color. :)


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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 13:08 
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hookshot wrote:
Poly SEALS the blade from moisture. Once applied, water will bead right off.

Woodworkers Magazine tested all commonly available finishes and poly came out on top. It is the most water proof and scratch resistant finish.

Some blades with many coats, the rubber cement glue did not stick well. This was easily fixed by Lightly sanding with #400 wet or dry to just break the finish a little. Still water proof.


Properly done, it will NOT affect the way the blade plays.


Best way I found was to dip the corner of a rag, (old tee shirt) in the poly. Rub it in the wood including the edges. Then wipe it off with the dry part of the rag. Two or three coats can be applied depending on how open the grain.

I have experimented with up to 10 coats, table top finish. I have done hundreds of blades, many home made, many factory.

There are many that will tell you it will RUIN the blade. NOT true if done like above. We proved this with blind tests of sealed blades. It takes many coats to change a defensive blade and a lot more to change an offensive blade. Plus, if someone WANTS a slightly faster blade, sealing can be a fix.

Some woods tend to splinter when removing rubber. Sealing with poly stops this very well.

Stains are used to change the color of wood. Some may seal, some may not. The purpose of stain is to change the color. :)

Excellent post, stickied! :up: :up: :up: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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PostPosted: 28 Jun 2018, 14:28 
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hookshot wrote:
Poly SEALS the blade from moisture. Once applied, water will bead right off.

Woodworkers Magazine tested all commonly available finishes and poly came out on top. It is the most water proof and scratch resistant finish.

Some blades with many coats, the rubber cement glue did not stick well. This was easily fixed by Lightly sanding with #400 wet or dry to just break the finish a little. Still water proof.


Properly done, it will NOT affect the way the blade plays.


Best way I found was to dip the corner of a rag, (old tee shirt) in the poly. Rub it in the wood including the edges. Then wipe it off with the dry part of the rag. Two or three coats can be applied depending on how open the grain.


I have experimented with up to 10 coats, table top finish. I have done hundreds of blades, many home made, many factory.


There are many that will tell you it will RUIN the blade. NOT true if done like above. We proved this with blind tests of sealed blades. It takes many coats to change a defensive blade and a lot more to change an offensive blade. Plus, if someone WANTS a slightly faster blade, sealing can be a fix.

Some woods tend to splinter when removing rubber. Sealing with poly stops this very well.


Stains are used to change the color of wood. Some may seal, some may not. The purpose of stain is to change the color. :)
Hookshot was one of the guys that got me sealing my blades. I too have done hundreds of blades. Most with 2-3 thin wipes.

I have not experienced difficulty in gluing rubbers with the over hundreds blades I sealed. Be it with rubber cement, speed glue, water glue...

Over the years people got on my face with sealing ruining the feel of the blade. I told them to put money where their mouths are. I will put out three identical type of blades, one sealed, two not. He can see the sealing process. A third person will take possession of the three blades while waiting the seal to dry on the one blade. Then the person could play and tell which one is the one sealed three times in a row (with same rubbers on all three blades) and see if he can get it correct. If correct I'll give him a thousand dollars. Vice versa.

Every time they just backed out.

instagram: rokphishtt

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PostPosted: 29 Jun 2018, 13:02 
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hookshot wrote:
Poly SEALS the blade from moisture. Once applied, water will bead right off.

Woodworkers Magazine tested all commonly available finishes and poly came out on top. It is the most water proof and scratch resistant finish.

Some blades with many coats, the rubber cement glue did not stick well. This was easily fixed by Lightly sanding with #400 wet or dry to just break the finish a little. Still water proof.


Properly done, it will NOT affect the way the blade plays.


Best way I found was to dip the corner of a rag, (old tee shirt) in the poly. Rub it in the wood including the edges. Then wipe it off with the dry part of the rag. Two or three coats can be applied depending on how open the grain.


I have experimented with up to 10 coats, table top finish. I have done hundreds of blades, many home made, many factory.


There are many that will tell you it will RUIN the blade. NOT true if done like above. We proved this with blind tests of sealed blades. It takes many coats to change a defensive blade and a lot more to change an offensive blade. Plus, if someone WANTS a slightly faster blade, sealing can be a fix.

Some woods tend to splinter when removing rubber. Sealing with poly stops this very well.


Stains are used to change the color of wood. Some may seal, some may not. The purpose of stain is to change the color. :)


Hookshot,
Thank you for the wonderful explanation :clap:! When you mention "poly", does that stand for polyurethane or polycrylic or both?

I had seen your detailed post on another forum, along with another one by tommyzai, which is how I knew to seal the blade with polyurethane. It was also recommended by tommyzai to use water-based instead of oil-based polyurethane.

While searching for water-based polyurethane, one of the store employees recommended that I purchase Minwax polycrylic saying it is the same thing. I now know it performs a similar function but it is definitely a different chemical than polyurethane. My question is whether I should return it or if it can be used for this purpose.

Thanks!

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Backup: Pre-assembled Gambler Silver Dragon with Sevens Rubber
Motto: Always Learnin'


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PostPosted: 29 Jun 2018, 14:34 
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My favorite is Minwax Polyurethane Quick Dry. You can glue up just 30 minutes after sealing. The long dry is just as good. Just have to wait longer before gluing up.

I use the mineral based but have used the water based also. Both are good and when the water based poly is dry, it is just as water proof as the mineral based.


Tommy and I have done a lot of sealing and had blind tests done. Seal all blades! :)


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PostPosted: 29 Jun 2018, 19:34 
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When i said stain, i didn't mean use a stain...

The seal will change the colour of the wood. Each subsequent layer will make it slightly darker until you reach the colour of the varnish

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PostPosted: 29 Jun 2018, 22:28 
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You are right, it will make the wood a little darker. :)


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2018, 03:00 
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learninTT wrote:
Greetings,
I'm looking to protect my new wood blade when I receive it. I was looking for Varathane water-based polyurethane and the person at the store recommended Minwax polycrylic. Looking online there doesn't appear to be a difference from the point of view of protecting wood. Both seem to do a good job with polyurethane being recommended for high traffic areas.

Any opinions on this from a TT perspective?

Thanks!


Both of these are water based. Water based polyurethanes would potentially have a problem with raising the grain of the wood. I think most of the people here use oil based polyurethane varnishes.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2018, 03:19 
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The water based can raise small hairs which when dry can be removed with a light sanding with #400 paper. The second coat will not raise anymore. :)


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2018, 13:25 
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"Polyurethane" is a generic term, and is based on the chemistry behind the varnishes (both oil and water based). "Polycrylic" is a brand name. What it refers to only Minwax knows.. :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 03 Sep 2018, 23:48 
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hookshot wrote:
...
Some woods tend to splinter when removing rubber. Sealing with poly stops this very well.
...


I use a polyurethane based sealing which was provided by Germanys greatest table tennis blade producer (=> amongst others all Andro blades, lot of Donic and Nittaku blades). At first the protection against removal of splinters was weak. I discussed this with him and it might have resulted from an too early use of the blades. From then on I sealed the blade and let it rest for at least 24 h before the first use. This helped a lot. Although there is still a tendency for this splintering in case of soft veneers of high quality i.e. old growth and perfect rift texture and long pimple out rubbers fixed by a glue sheet. And this although I do not use the sheet as it is but put a layer of old VOC fresh glue on both blade and the sheet - the VOC fresh glue is much weaker than the glue of the sheet. As every glue tends to become firmer in cause of time, I now peel off the sheet every 3-4 weeks and remount it with VOC fresh glue.


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PostPosted: 04 Sep 2018, 03:09 
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Yeah, expensive blades seem to be more prone to this.. Murphy's Law and all that... However my favorite $9 blade also has a tear-prone outer sheet. Maybe that's why it feels so good... :lol: And yes, I do varnish all my blades.

Iskandar


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