OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I prefer low vibration/no vibration blades.
Anyone care to tell me why you prefer high vibration or similar blades?
Does blade vibration = feedback?

One guy I know claims that the vibration = touch, but the way I see it by the time you realize that you've hit incorrectly, the ball has already left the bat.

_________________
Chasse Patate

I prefer low to medium vibration (more towards low). I think vibration ~ feedback ~ touch is true in some sense, as it develops the player's feel towards various strokes using the blade, and hence increases the player's awareness towards the control of using different strokes. I started with a preassembled ALL+ blade with 1.5mm sponge and it felt almost 2nd nature to play various strokes with the blade after some time (I believe it's due to the vibration).
This outcome however, is somewhat complicated by the fact that blades that offer good vibration typically also offer good control. Is there any good control blade with low to no vibration or low control blade with high vibration?

blades with no vibration at all are normally so fast that the ball has gone before you can do anything about it and blades with very high vibration are normally to slow for countering.
With a medium vibration blade you still have enough dwell time and also enough power when needed,also I too think (by the time you realize that you've hit incorrectly, the ball has already left the bat).
I believe vibration and dwell are related and the outer ply's are the most imprortant factor of dwell time.
My limited experience with aramid/carbon blades says you can have a pretty fast blade with good dwell and control

_________________
Xiom Control 3/ALL+
FH Andro impuls speed
BH sriver fx
Tibhar CTE

Vibration,,,,,
Got my own thoughts on that.
Don't know how many people know the technical end of vibration or harmonics but coming from a technical background and having measured different things down to nano and pico seconds, I have my thoughts on this subject.
Generally, the harder or stiffer an object is, the higher the frequency of vibration will be.
You can only feel vibrations within a certain band. Too high or too low and you don't know it is there. All blades vibrate.
Most of the hard, fast blades don't have vibration you can feel. The frequency is too fast for you to feel.
Some extremely slow blades don't seem to vibrate. They are so soft that the frequency is so slow, you cannot perceive it.
You might prove me wrong on the next point but that is what you will have to do. After contact with the ball, there is "Nothing you can do to change the shot." Contact time, even with slow blades with tons of dwell time is so short, your brain cannot send a message to the muscles and have the muscles change what they were doing before the ball leaves the blade such as close the blade angle a little more judged by what the hand felt as the ball hit the blade. I suspect contact time would be measured in 1 or 2 mili seconds at best and maybe even micro seconds.
True, blades and rubber combos with long dwell time have good control. Also true, most slow blades show vibration, (control) Also true, most Really fast blades don't vibrate, (vibrate too fast to feel) less control.
As with most "rules" there are exceptions. One ply hinoki is one.
What is vibration? When you hit the ball, the blade flexes. When the ball is "gone" the blade trys to recover it's shape but goes past and then comes back the other way and so on untill the flex dissapates.
If you watch high speed vids of an arrow leaving a bow, the same thing happens. Stiff carbon arrows flex alot less than wood arrows. (arrow vibration)
I like fast blades. Blocking and countering are eaiser for me. The slow blades (long dwell) I have tried raised the throw angle when I hit hard. I think it is because the ball is in the rubber longer and the upwards movement of the blade has a bigger effect. The problem is, it is different depending on how hard you hit.

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

no vibs at all ...

_________________
Xiom Strato , St
FH: DHS H3 prov, max
BH: Butterfly Tenergy 05FX, max

I definitely like some vibration in my blade, feels like it offer more dwell time and feel. I quite like the vibrations in some of the Stiga blades, and the Violin has a real nice and quite obvious vibration too.

Then there is the Toxic 3 blade as an example, which has huge vibration and dwell time. This blade obviously disspates the energy of the ball by generating vibrations, which is why it works... so it's not an issue...

So I prefer the vibrations, as long as it does not feel excessive.

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

I prefer vibration for two reasons, awareness and feeling.
Its true that by the time you feel the vibration its too late to alter the shot, but if you hit a good or a bad shot the feel in your hand reinforces the outcome. You havent just seen the ball land or miss you've felt it as well, its an extra confirmation of what you just did. Also, with vibration the blade feels like an extention of my hand. Each shot feels a little different so although the vibration cant help mid shot it does help you develop a catalogue of the blades responses which helps your shot selection later.
I think the feedback of the vibration helps me to learn what the blade plays like and because of this I can learn what shots to play generally as well. I cant do the same with a low/no vibration blade.

nice tots on vibration, Hookshot !!

i like low vibration blades. vibration is actually the resonent frequency of any object when being hit.
its the same thing wz rubbers & blades. each will have its own resonent frequency.
thus, from experience, i have learn tat rubber matching to the blade u are using is very important
cos sometimes, when the RF of the rubber is outta sync too much from the blade's RF,
it actually cancels out a bit & reduces the power of the blade. on the other hand,
when rubber's RF is more closely match wz the blade's, power is optimised. perhaps even
enhenced as a result.

tats why sometimes a rubbber feels better when u put it on another blade. this optimization quest
will cost some money but when u find the heavenly marriage, u'll love it !!

like my Hurricane King setup now is the better match from all the rubbers i tried on it.
so much so tat i can't help but choose to play wz it over my Acoustic blade most of time. hahaha

_________________
Hurricane King 655
Tenergy 25
Narucross EX

Thanks Yuna,
I haven't used that blade. How fast is it? Carbon? Any vibes at all?
My Galexy W-1 does not vibrate but it does not have the "ping" of some blades I have used like the G10 Glass. Man, that one was Toooo fast for me.

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

hookshot, i believe u are refering to the Hurricane King ??

u see, the problem wz the concept of speed and vibration is generally a relative thing
unless one can come up wz an objective way to gauge these 2..
a good example is Xiom. they use a machine to map out the resonent frequency of their
Hinoki J-pens as part of the process of grading blade quality.

so i can only comment on the H.King relative to the Acoustic. i only have 2 shakehand blades.

briefly, both are not carbon blades. vibration is low to medium for both wz the Acoustic's being more crisp
(tighter & clearer RF). concept is like the bass u get from speakers. a tight bass vs a less clear, loose bass from lousy speaker system.
speed wise, Acoustic is also a bit faster & more powerful. control is good & very similar for both.
Acoustics is also more average in weight and cannot take on 2 chinese rubbers like the H.King.
it'll prob weight more than 190g (my limit) if it does.

overall, i would say Acoustic is a better blade but wz rubber matching, the H.King has become a close rival.
i like the long FL handle of H.King much more than Acoustic's ST. it fits my big hands (like WLQ) snugly.

_________________
Hurricane King 655
Tenergy 25
Narucross EX

Hmm, so far, no real difference when I use a flexible or a stiff blade. I could still seem to produce the same amount of spin on the ball.

Thank goodness there's a few affordable carbon blades.

But I agree with Silver's 'the ball left the racket already' line.

_________________
Viscaria. H2 Neo 2.15. Tenergy 05 1.9.

I don't like alot of vibration, but I definitely don't like no vibration, so I chose medium.

_________________
Photino
My rubbers are 9 years old. They won’t be there long.

I have tried two blades that were slow. One is the Joola Carbon Pro. It is rated as Offensive. It is carbon but has a thick layer of wood over the carbon. I would rate it as Allaround at best. It had vibrations. The other is the Stiga Allaround Oversize Classic. That had vibrations. Both blades were looping machines but the speed was not there. Great control.
I have some one ply hinoki's. They are a different animal. They are fast but have a soft feel like a slow blade but do not vibrate. I think it has to do with the thickness of the wood. It will not flex as much as a thiner blade. They still have touch at slow speed but have gears when you put the power on. Never used another type blade that plays like a hinoki.

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

Silver, how do you rate the vibration on arylate carbon like Aspyte : low, medium or high ?
And how would you rate the Violin ?

_________________
Expert II crwi C-Pen
Red Acuda P1

The violin has a med vibration. It's good and bad imo. It's definitely not as "sharp"[1] as some blades I've tried (OC CR, Ishlion[2]) but more than others (HWL, TBS, Photino, BT555). It's a bit iffy imo. It's a nice enough blade, but nowhere near as fast as specified and it too, well, neutral. Loops aren't that outstanding, blocks, etc. Handle is a bit small too, which I guess emphasizes vibration a wee bit.

Arylate carbon blades are mostly dead. Of the ones I've tried, the Iolite is the most dead (also the fastest and most "springy") and surprisingly the KLHS has the most vibration. The TBS and Viscaria are damped down surprisingly well, and while they give a more, uh, solid rebound, they don't vibrate as crazily as the 3-ply klhs.

The Photino (Zylon) I have seems to be deader than the KLHS - which has probably the closest ply structure.

Tamca 5000 vs ULC (or Carbon weave/mesh vs um. straight carbon? fleece carbon?)
Many of the carbon weave blades I've used are dead with not much vibration. The PC, SC, Targa2 all were quite springy with low vibration. Compared to the Ishlion and Kreanga, these tended to have mid vibration which were "sharper" than the mesh waves, with a larger, sweet spot and more spring. I think that the YinHe T2 is actually a fleece type blade.

[1] I think I'll define "Sharp" as a short, high amplitude, high freq vibration.
[2] this was a bit of a surprise to me! It seems quite stable and fairly dampened down, but the vibration is just a tad sharp now and again.

_________________
Chasse Patate