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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2018, 17:26 
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What the title says. There have been threads like this in the past, but the most recent I've found on this site after a quick look date back to about 2011/2012 (like http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=21095 and http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=17939).

Would something like the Gambler Zero rubber (which came out relatively recently) be a sufficient cheap alternative to Mark V for those that don't have much to put down for a custom paddle? Are there any other rubbers that came out since then that would have similar performance and cost less than Mark V? What would you sacrifice to get these cheaper options (besides durability)?


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PostPosted: 22 Oct 2018, 19:40 
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As always, whole heartedly recommend LKT Pro XP, two sheets and a Galaxy blade will set you back ~$30 total.


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PostPosted: 23 Oct 2018, 04:12 
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lasta wrote:
As always, whole heartedly recommend LKT Pro XP, two sheets and a Galaxy blade will set you back ~$30 total.


Yep..... LKT Pro XP... or Pro XT (I've tried.. infact, once the tackiness wear-off it's similar to a Mark V), if you'd like something tacky...

Some other considerations..

Palio CJ8000 Japanese sponge (I hear, never tried)
A version of Dawei (I hear, never tried)

If you want something like an upgraded version of the Mark V, then you could five the 729 Focus III Snipe (Ask for it in a softer sponge), a go ... I've played quite a bit with this one, and I really like it.


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PostPosted: 23 Oct 2018, 07:58 
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Thanks guys! I've looked at ktl XP (probably gonna stick with mechanical grip right now)

The whole list of Palio rubbers confuses me. Could anyone lend a hand: What does the Japanese sponge give that the other versions don't? What hardness is best for a beginner? (I feel like Iskandar would be helpful here...)

ootbs wrote:
If you want something like an upgraded version of the Mark V, then you could five the 729 Focus III Snipe (Ask for it in a softer sponge), a go ... I've played quite a bit with this one, and I really like it.


Could you tell me more about that rubber? I have heard many recommendations for it but I'm unclear how it improves on Mark V.


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PostPosted: 23 Oct 2018, 08:27 
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Stiga Mendo Energy is softer than Mark V but has a grippy top sheet and performs similarly to Mark V.
On sale at TT11 for less than $21.

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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2018, 14:47 
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Mark V came out in 1969 (IIRC) and together with Sriver dominated the rubber market in the 1970s. It's about as middle-of-the-road as you can get when it comes to rubbers, and there are many, many rubbers which are similar to it. So Mendo is similar. Focus III Snipe is probably pretty similar. So would be, say, Yinhe Mars. And Nittaku Magic Carbon. In fact, I think you'd play equally well with any of the $5 Chinese sheets, even if they are harder overall and have tacky surfaces. You might not even be able to tell the difference.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 24 Oct 2018, 17:31 
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notcras wrote:
Thanks guys! I've looked at ktl XP (probably gonna stick with mechanical grip right now)

The whole list of Palio rubbers confuses me. Could anyone lend a hand: What does the Japanese sponge give that the other versions don't? What hardness is best for a beginner? (I feel like Iskandar would be helpful here...)

ootbs wrote:
If you want something like an upgraded version of the Mark V, then you could five the 729 Focus III Snipe (Ask for it in a softer sponge), a go ... I've played quite a bit with this one, and I really like it.


Could you tell me more about that rubber? I have heard many recommendations for it but I'm unclear how it improves on Mark V.


This is my perception of the Focus III Snipe (F3S)... The blade(s) I've used it on may also play a part..Also, I am talking about ONLY the softer/max/un-boosted variant of this rubber...

The F3S, to me, seems to bit a faster, a bit bouncier, grippier than the Mark V, but tends to maintain the same control as Mark V... Similarly, just like the Mark V, it felt rather forgiving... Although, it's a Chinese make, it plays/feels more like a Euro/Jap rubber. .. Just like a Mark V, it's for All-round playing... It's also pretty long-lasting..

However, I found some manufacturing inconsistencies ..... I once ordered 2 rubbers (for myself and a club-m8) from AliExpress... Same Sponge, colour, n all.... I was happy with the one, I was using... However, the other one, seemed weird.... can't accurately describe the issue ...ummm... it just seemed to slide-off/slip-off the rubber... I've bought 2-3, in both colours, and various degrees of sponge hardness - no issues...


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PostPosted: 25 Oct 2018, 14:52 
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Yeah, Chinese rubbers aren't known for consistency or QC. This seems to depend on the brand. I've seen a lot of people say DHS rubbers (particularly H3) vary a lot from sheet to sheet, but I haven't experienced this myself. I did have a sheet of PF4 which I bought sometime in the 1980s which delaminated, and that put me off DHS stuff for a long time. 729 seems OK, I haven't heard any complaints about Yinhe rubbers. LKT/KTL, though... I had three out of three sheets of Golden Star shed their topsheets (that's a rate of 100%). Palio rubbers? (This would include Yasaka ZAP and New Era.) The less said the better. I've had sheets with bubbles right out of the packet, sheets with really excessive dish (one with so much the topsheet actually creased when forced flat on a blade), etc. Kokutaku 868 seems to shed the topsheet after 2-3 years (and even if those 2-3 years are in storage!).

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 04:48 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Yeah, Chinese rubbers aren't known for consistency or QC. This seems to depend on the brand. I've seen a lot of people say DHS rubbers (particularly H3) vary a lot from sheet to sheet, but I haven't experienced this myself. I did have a sheet of PF4 which I bought sometime in the 1980s which delaminated, and that put me off DHS stuff for a long time. 729 seems OK, I haven't heard any complaints about Yinhe rubbers. LKT/KTL, though... I had three out of three sheets of Golden Star shed their topsheets (that's a rate of 100%). Palio rubbers? (This would include Yasaka ZAP and New Era.) The less said the better. I've had sheets with bubbles right out of the packet, sheets with really excessive dish (one with so much the topsheet actually creased when forced flat on a blade), etc. Kokutaku 868 seems to shed the topsheet after 2-3 years (and even if those 2-3 years are in storage!).

Iskandar


Interesting about the issues. Palio sounds like I should avoid entirely. I have heard lots of good things about 729 as well as Yinhe rubbers. But I've also heard good things about LKT/KTL. For LKT/KTL rubbers do you think its worth the risk based on your experience? Could it also be a factor of ordering from aliexpress vs somewhere else?


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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 07:09 
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notcras wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
Yeah, Chinese rubbers aren't known for consistency or QC. This seems to depend on the brand. I've seen a lot of people say DHS rubbers (particularly H3) vary a lot from sheet to sheet, but I haven't experienced this myself. I did have a sheet of PF4 which I bought sometime in the 1980s which delaminated, and that put me off DHS stuff for a long time. 729 seems OK, I haven't heard any complaints about Yinhe rubbers. LKT/KTL, though... I had three out of three sheets of Golden Star shed their topsheets (that's a rate of 100%). Palio rubbers? (This would include Yasaka ZAP and New Era.) The less said the better. I've had sheets with bubbles right out of the packet, sheets with really excessive dish (one with so much the topsheet actually creased when forced flat on a blade), etc. Kokutaku 868 seems to shed the topsheet after 2-3 years (and even if those 2-3 years are in storage!).

Iskandar


Interesting about the issues. Palio sounds like I should avoid entirely. I have heard lots of good things about 729 as well as Yinhe rubbers. But I've also heard good things about LKT/KTL. For LKT/KTL rubbers do you think its worth the risk based on your experience? Could it also be a factor of ordering from aliexpress vs somewhere else?


For their cheaper range, yes avoid Palio, AK47 bubbled from my backhand grip after 1 session. 729 used to be reliable, but seems to be on a downhill trend (ie I have 5 sheets of 802-40 on hand, none of them play the same), KTL as far as I know belongs to 729, Pro XP lasts nearly forever. Not sure if it's good quality of I just got a good batch. :D

I don't agree that you always get what you pay for, but when you get to these company's competitive level, corners had to be cut somewhere.

Never tried Yinhe rubbers, but their blades are top notch regardless of price!


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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 07:32 
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729 rubbers tend to be hit or miss. But usually the cheapest training rubbers seem to have the most similar characteristics. You can get like 10 Sheets from TTNPP for like 25 bucks ... throw out or resell the crappy ones and keep the good ones ?

Replace MarkV eh ? I feel MarkV sits in a "reasonable" price range, it prevents casul players from buying but not so cheap that hard-core TT players are going to make it go out of stock :lol:

If you buy cheaper rubbers, the QC isnt there ... or it wont last long, ... or some flaw that will force you back to getting MarkV.

Why waste money on unknowns and instead just buy the MarkV ?

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Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-729OEM/729SuperFX
    2. FH/BH-STN
  • 729 Bomb : FH/BH-YRD/T5QS
  • DHS PowerG-9 : FH/BH-729SuperFX
  • Stag Balsa Koto : FH/BH-YRD/YR9
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH-YSD
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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 08:22 
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man_iii wrote:
729 rubbers tend to be hit or miss. But usually the cheapest training rubbers seem to have the most similar characteristics. You can get like 10 Sheets from TTNPP for like 25 bucks ... throw out or resell the crappy ones and keep the good ones ?

Replace MarkV eh ? I feel MarkV sits in a "reasonable" price range, it prevents casul players from buying but not so cheap that hard-core TT players are going to make it go out of stock :lol:

If you buy cheaper rubbers, the QC isnt there ... or it wont last long, ... or some flaw that will force you back to getting MarkV.

Why waste money on unknowns and instead just buy the MarkV ?


You certainly have a point. I just wanted to know what else was out there on the cheaper end and if it was worth it.

I'm certainly going to try out probably something like LKT XP just so I can see for myself (I always got to learn the hard way). However in short, it seems that nothing can really replace Mark V in our hearts :l: (at least until you get to tenergy, I guess). lol Thanks!


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PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 08:36 
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Spinlord Tiger is another good substitute. TT11 has it for $18.74 USD.


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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2018, 00:22 
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notcras wrote:
Interesting about the issues. Palio sounds like I should avoid entirely. I have heard lots of good things about 729 as well as Yinhe rubbers. But I've also heard good things about LKT/KTL. For LKT/KTL rubbers do you think its worth the risk based on your experience? Could it also be a factor of ordering from aliexpress vs somewhere else?

Used 729/LKT rubbers when I first started. 729 Cream Transcend and Geospin tacky delivered for the typical Chinese forehands, you get what you put into the strokes. I had bad experiences with LKT rubbers though. For backhand though they are completely unsuitable the brands.

Dawei, Yinhe, Sanwei, lineup of "Speed Glue Effect" rubbers are better. They might not deliver in "speed glue effect" but they're fast enough. Look for anything with porous sponges. I've heard some good things about Reactor Ckylin as well and the new LOKI brand rubbers all seem to come with the porous, factory boosted sponges as well


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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2018, 00:50 
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You might email the staff at Zeropong. They could make some good suggestions. Mark V is just an average rubber vs the plastic ball.

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Panda Drive / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max / Play right-handed
XVT balsa carbon 10mm / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH Globe 979 Long Pips OX / Play Left-handed shakehand
Stiga Def Wood / 4H Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 / BH GD CC LP OX .. Play Left-handed
Cpen SOS Wood / 4H 729 802-40 2.0 / BH GD Talon use righthanded shakehand grip
HARDBAT / Shakehand Hock 3 ply / Friendship Dr Evil OX .. Play Right-handed


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