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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2018, 17:31 
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Let me just preface by saying that I have a very unique grip where I use one side of the blade to push and serve and other side for all topspin shots, blocks, and drives. SO… if one could choose a rubber considering only it's ability to generate great services and pushes (my current blade is Korbel by Butterfly, a 5 ply wooden OFF blade), what would OOAK recommend? Product name, sponge thickness, and rationale would be greatly appreciated as I am not the most equipment savvy chum on the block.

Thanks in advance! :rock:

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2018, 19:28 
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Exclusively for serving and pushing? For me it would be a rubber with maximum spin and control. Something like 1.5 or 1.7mm tackiness chop or similar.


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2018, 21:07 
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I've always liked Chinese style rubbers for service and pushing with max spin. A hard 1.5-2.0mm sponge with a sticky, soft topsheet can create some devastating serves/pushes with the right technique...

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2018, 06:53 
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Blade: Waldner Senso Carbon
Globe 999 or Hurricane 3 (non neo)


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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2018, 08:14 
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In people's experience, how does the thickness of a rubber affect services and pushes? I know (and can tell) it's effects in full shots, but I'm not an EJ and so I haven't had the ability to try a lot of rubbers, let alone various thicknesses of sponge, when serving and pushing…

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2018, 08:58 
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Based solely on the opening post, I'd say exactly what Fabian already replied. The Hurricane 3 requires a bit more of a "full" determined stroke, where the Globe (or Juic "def") 999 allows a less active push. Easier to vary speed and spin with the H3. With Hurricane and a bit of practice, you get killer underspin on your serves and pushes. Also works for attack, but requires even more effort. (Not relevant to your question, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.)

Coming from Tenergy, the transition to H3/999 may be difficult. The Butterfly Tackiness C, as suggested by Dusty054, is probably a better match. I'd also consider Gambler Reflectoid.

I find it difficult to play with the thinner sponged Tackiness (C as well as D) and Reflectoid rubbers. Tried both Tackiness C 1,5, Tackiness D 1,7 and Reflectoid 1,5 on ALL and DEF+ blades. For me they did not behave very consistently, and I'd expect it to be even worse on faster blades (though I don't know for sure). I'd use 1,9 sponge on Tackiness, and 2,0 on the Reflectoid. On these rubbers the thicker sponge does not contribute to bounce as much as you'd expect, but it does a lot for spin and general consistency. Probably less of an issue for serve/push than it is with higher impact.


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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2018, 09:20 
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Original Friendship 729 - very spinny with nasty pushes and chops though sensitive to on coming spin. With too many 729 variants available these days, I suppose Friendship 729FX will be a good substitute. I would choose 1.8mm thickness.


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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2018, 14:02 
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Thanks everyone for the input, I'm eternally grateful! :D

With your average service/push does the ball press into the rubber enough for the sponge to truly make much of a difference (OX being excluded, obviously)? If so, how does a thinner v. a thicker sponge play out in the arena of miniature shots—i.e. pushes and serves?

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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2018, 01:54 
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Rakza 7 or Baracuda?? Remember, good pushing isn't passive - and a little bit of speed can help. Neither is serving. If you're constantly serving backspin without being able to mix in disguised topspin and no-spin then you're missing a lot of opportunities. Also the occasional fast-and-long.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2018, 03:09 
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Blade: Donic Defplay Senso V3
FH: Xiom Vega Europe (Max)
BH: Dawei 388D-1
I found the HN3 could generate some good spin, on serves and pushes too.. Infact, I'd still be using one, had it not been for the weight

I've played with the Original 728, and that too could generate some decent spin...

I've never owned one, but I've player with the MX-S several times, since a fellow club member has it, and MONSTER SPIN, is the only thing that comes to mind...

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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2018, 12:38 
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Perhaps OOAK may find it helpful to know more about my service game/tactics.

My service is probably my greatest strength. I just started playing at a club about 5 weeks back; this club has a few former international champions from various countries and while their game blows mine out of the water in every other area, I'd wager I have the best service game in the club (and I also wager they'd agree). My service strategy revolves around the classic backspin/no spin combination and I have a lot of 3rd ball put aways even against vastly superior players. I'd say I play 75-80% of my services short (half-long or shorter) and 20-25% long (last 3 inches of the table). I serve exclusively from the backhand corner, for now, as I've been varying my paddle's grip slightly on a week to week basis and don't need more moving parts than is necessary. Due to my unique grip I'm able to achieve not only lots of classic clockwise sidespin with the pendulum serve, but ALSO counter-clockwise spin from the same motion (my grip has LOTS of wrist flexibility and interesting angles). I tend to feature a placement strategy (to fellow right handed players) that involves services to the wide-wide short backhand and to the short crossover point for shakehand receives along with no spin to both locations as my primary services. I do this even knowing that most shakehand players prefer to push with their backhand instead of forehand because my best serve involves a very deceptive action that sends services straight down the line (by which I mean on the white) on the receiver's forehand side and I use this serve with heavy spin short and no spin short combinations to create net balls and pop-ups for easy points. My least popular serve is a fast and long serve down the forehand line and I tend to pull it out when I think a player is cheating too much on the backhand side to get ready for my most common serves.

I don't know why, Iskandar, but I really just can't get into topspin services. I think it's because I have such a good flick game (my second strongest stroke after services) and can't remember the last time I didn't bury a topspin serve, even one well executed and hidden. Plus, I don't think I'm good at creating deceptive topspin. I'm not sure why I struggle with this considering how well I manipulate and hide spin for other service types, but alas, can't have a natural affinity for all service types, I suppose! If you think topspin serves have their place and have any tips on how to execute them well feel free to share, I'm always looking to learn! :)

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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2018, 15:00 
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Hmmm.. Must be one heckuva club if it "has a few former international champions from various countries". I mean, ONE would be impressive enough, several in one club would be difficult to imagine, unless it were some elite club in China. I'd love to see your grip and some of your serves, I might learn something from them. So please post a few videos, I'm quite curious now.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2018, 15:24 
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Will do! I'm re-entering medical school (year's absence due to being the victim of an attempt homicide and the resulting brain injury) so I'm going through long orientation hours at the present moment so it may be a week or two until I can get some footage up. Without giving away where I play, there is a multi-time ukranian champion and multi-time german champion at my club! :) I try and keep some anonymity on this forum, but I will say I'm insanely pumped to have discovered this club, it's changed my life, haha. I may PM you, iskander, since I haven't patented anything. What kind of overall service strategy do other OOAK users utilize?

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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2018, 17:19 
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I think serve strategy boils down to 3 things:

1) The ability to generate a LOT of spin. It's actually fairly complicated (see Brett's videos on - what does he call it? The Whip?).

2) The ability to VARY and DISGUISE the spin (the ability to serve topspin, no spin and backspin and make it all look the same - usually this also involves sidespin).

3) Variation and accuracy in placement. The ability to keep serves short, low and fast, but to also be able to throw in fast, long serves.

The point is to force weak returns that can be attacked, and bad returns which miss the table altogether.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 30 Jun 2018, 15:17 
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There IS NOT a single rubber optimized for this, not matter what tt company marketing one may hear.

Everyone has a different impact and acceleration, so it can vary.

If you do not catch the ball in the topsheet and throw it out to make your spin, then a tacky rubber will give you easier results.

For me, a topsheet that has a really dynamic stretching topsheet makes it super easy for me to get spin on both serves and brush type loops. it is a bonus that the topsheet is a little worn and less spin sensitive, so I can add spin in my way vs incoming spin.


I have used inexpensive rubbers like Dawei XP 2008 Super Power (nor big power, just big control) and modern dynamic rubbers equally well for this.

Your ability to catch and throw the ball and your ability to control grip pressure at impact will have much more say in the result than just your rubber/blade, but yes, appropriate equipment makes it EASIER to do some things.

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