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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2017, 07:05 
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Blade: Joola Falcon Fast
FH: Joola Energy 325
BH: Joola Energy 325
Hi all. Thanks for reading my post. I should preface this by stating I really am a novice here and will not understand a lot of terminology floated about (e.g. what are “gears” anyway?!!).

I played a bit of TT about 15-16 years ago, and back then I was into Joola blades and rubbers, but only spent about 1 year in the scene (back when you played to 21, could hide serve contact…!). I took up TT 1.5yrs ago at a local club, and played the winter league where I did OK and asked to play in a higher division (as I have the potential to learn I think, rather than being that good!).

I have a fairly strong forehand and can out away a lot of shots convincingly. I’m working on the loop off of strong backspin for consistency; the flick is not there at all (I have little time or opportunity to practice right now, so it is weekly league matches!) and my backhand is quite poor/weak. I am very good at pushing/chopping backspin back on my backhand and can do this for a long time, but keeping looped topspin low with BH, reacting to play BH as a counter, and smashing (let alone looping) with BH just is very poor. I am working on it…

I know that is lengthy, but with this in mind, I am after some BH rubber advice. I do want to improve and plan to there, but need to be realistic. Right now, I am using Joola Energy 325 on both FH and BH. I have found this to work quite well but disappointed with longevity and brittle nature of Joola rubbers now. I bought 2 x DHS Hurricane 3 (not Neo) in ignorance as another player I know has that set up, and put it on my 17yr old Joola Legend A+ bat. I cannot play with it – too hard, completel different to my current newer set up, and feel like I have to impart so much more effort and not getting the same spin. Qiuite disappointed! Probably my blade there doesn’t help.

Anyway, after extensive reading I think I need to stick with non-tacky and softer rubbers. Right now, I am looking at the Tibhar Aurus Sound for my FH. Am considering the same for my BH, but unsure given the weakness if there is a better current option. Also considering the Xiom Vega Elite, as a soft sponge.

Any thoughts/recommendations for BH rubber (or even FH!)? Should I persevere with the DHS H3?? Is maybe my blade poor for that rubber? Should I start to move towards a harder sponge closer to the angle you would expect from a Tibhar Evo MX-P? I don’t think it is wise at my stage to invest in those sorts of rubbers though, but also more generally I am worried I am too used to a “soft” sponge and maybe I need to address that if I am to improve and go a bit harder…

All thoughts appreciated and welcomed! Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2017, 08:19 
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BH: Xiom Vega Europe DF
Welcome to the forum JDD3. Sounds to me like a very sensible post and one I can relate to. I'd say that if Joola 325 is 32.5 degrees on the Euro scale then it might be getting a little bit too soft. At the other end of the scale I think the Evo MX-P might be a bit hard and fast for what you describe. I've used it and found it very bouncy and hard to control. You might get used to it but why risk it when there are plenty of other good options.

Just the other day I tried LKT XP Pro in max and it was quite good on an ALL+ blade. Could do all the shots but just a little slower than a tensor and a lot cheaper. Its one of the few non-tacky chinese rubbers.

Other non-tensors I've used for myself are Nikkatu Zalt, Nittaku Magic Carbon and Yasaka Original Extra XHD. They are all non-tensor and non-tacky and very similar. Nothing stands out about any of them, just middle of the road solid rubbers. I used in 2.0mm.

If you are looking at a tensor then I'd suggest sticking with 2.0mm and not going max. I'm currently using Xiom Vega Europe DF and have found the spin really good but doesn't have extreme catapult like some other tensors. Vega Intro, Vega Elite are also likely ok. You could also check out the '3' type rubbers from Donic which are still a bit soft, around 40-42 degrees but not to the Joola 325 level. Things like Acuda S3, Bluestorm Z3, Acuda Blue P3. I'd also get these in 2mm. Tibhar Aurus I believe is in the same category so should be fine but once again, don't be afraid to go 2.0mm rather than max for a bit more control.

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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2017, 17:51 
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JDD3 wrote:
Hi all. Thanks for reading my post. I should preface this by stating I really am a novice here and will not understand a lot of terminology floated about (e.g. what are “gears” anyway?!!).

I played a bit of TT about 15-16 years ago, and back then I was into Joola blades and rubbers, but only spent about 1 year in the scene (back when you played to 21, could hide serve contact…!). I took up TT 1.5yrs ago at a local club, and played the winter league where I did OK and asked to play in a higher division (as I have the potential to learn I think, rather than being that good!).

I have a fairly strong forehand and can out away a lot of shots convincingly. I’m working on the loop off of strong backspin for consistency; the flick is not there at all (I have little time or opportunity to practice right now, so it is weekly league matches!) and my backhand is quite poor/weak. I am very good at pushing/chopping backspin back on my backhand and can do this for a long time, but keeping looped topspin low with BH, reacting to play BH as a counter, and smashing (let alone looping) with BH just is very poor. I am working on it…

I know that is lengthy, but with this in mind, I am after some BH rubber advice. I do want to improve and plan to there, but need to be realistic. Right now, I am using Joola Energy 325 on both FH and BH. I have found this to work quite well but disappointed with longevity and brittle nature of Joola rubbers now. I bought 2 x DHS Hurricane 3 (not Neo) in ignorance as another player I know has that set up, and put it on my 17yr old Joola Legend A+ bat. I cannot play with it – too hard, completel different to my current newer set up, and feel like I have to impart so much more effort and not getting the same spin. Qiuite disappointed! Probably my blade there doesn’t help.

Anyway, after extensive reading I think I need to stick with non-tacky and softer rubbers. Right now, I am looking at the Tibhar Aurus Sound for my FH. Am considering the same for my BH, but unsure given the weakness if there is a better current option. Also considering the Xiom Vega Elite, as a soft sponge.

Any thoughts/recommendations for BH rubber (or even FH!)? Should I persevere with the DHS H3?? Is maybe my blade poor for that rubber? Should I start to move towards a harder sponge closer to the angle you would expect from a Tibhar Evo MX-P? I don’t think it is wise at my stage to invest in those sorts of rubbers though, but also more generally I am worried I am too used to a “soft” sponge and maybe I need to address that if I am to improve and go a bit harder…

All thoughts appreciated and welcomed! Thanks in advance.
I used to use a OFF- blade with soft rubber on my BH.

I usually perform blocking, chopping, counter loop and a bit of looping backapin.

My favourite rubbers are :(from my favorite to the least)
1. Gewo Thunderball 2 - very very underrated. Semi tacky topsheet on a soft sponge. Made in Germany with great control in short game (tacky) but enough catapult for looping.
2. H3-50 soft 37 degree (46-48 hardness on Euro scale). More spinny than Gewo with equal control. It can achieve powerful speed but requires the player to provide the power. In terms of looping H3-50 is the king.
3. Xiom Vega Europe - very controllable with enough speed but less spin than Gewo.
4. Friendship Aurora - another very very underrated rubber. Control and speed equal to Xiom but more speed and catapult. But could be too fast sometimes.
5. Tenergy 05 FX max. The most expensive but I like it the least. Speed and spin are the best. But error rate is high with this beast.

This is just my personal opinions. Hope it helps.

Passionate about TT


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PostPosted: 02 Nov 2017, 20:29 
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Blade: Nittaku Barwell Fleet
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BH: Hellfire OX
I'll rock the boat here, and suggest a different avenue. It sounds to me like you like to defend and pick hit on your backhand, so I think you should consider something very spinny, with a thin sponge. For example Tibhar Super Defence or TSP Triple Spin Chop, in about 1.3. This will give you a huge amount of spin and control on chops and pushes, and will be excellent for BH hits.

If you're anticipating developing a BH-loop-based game, I'd look at one of the rubbers suggested by Cobalt. I'll add +1 to the Pro XP, which I put on a friend's bat, and has been a great success.

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2017, 04:22 
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Blade: TSP 5.0
FH: Musa 2.0
BH: Keilar 1.8
Would agree with the last post recommending a thinner spinny non tensor rubber. To get more control and spin I recently switched to Xiom Musa 1.5 black on my backhand. Much better for chopping and blocking backspin than same rubber in thicker sponge or tensors.. You could also try speciaist rubbers such as butterfly tackiness drive or Gewo return drive. Of course if you really want to mainly push and chop then there is always long pimples.

For forehand I would avoid too soft like Vega Europe df. And go for more medium sponge with latest soft and thin top sheets for grip. I am finding the new Asia's df a very good balance between spin speed and feel. 2.0mm should be fine -I use 1.8mm but do not hit hard.


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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2017, 05:36 
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Blade: Xiom Offensive S
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo
BH: DHS Hurricane 3-50
Is your goal to develop a two winged topspin game, where you’d use both your BH and FH for offensive loops?

(As some excellent replies above suggest, using your backhand in a different way is also an option. So your goals are important for you to find the best advice..)

Soft sponge might feel nice at this stage in your development, because it is much easier to compress them: meaning that you will generate more spin on slow shots. But they can seriously limit your game’s development: soft sponges (say, below 40 degrees Euro scale) are only spinnier up to a point, but as you learn to move the blade faster end up limiting the spin you can generate.

I’d recommend looking for something medium hard and not too bouncy, and using the same on both sides (if you want to develop a two winged offensive topspin game). If you want a tension/speed glue effect rubber, it’s hard to beat Xiom Vega Pro for the money. (ESP since you can find it on sale between US$25-32..). But there are many other options.


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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2017, 09:20 
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Blade: Joola Falcon Fast
FH: Joola Energy 325
BH: Joola Energy 325
Hi all,

Many thanks for taking the time to provide some advice, and some great ideas and questions.

I guess I should say, I am mid-30's, played one season competitive TT and into my second in a higher league than last year (which has been a baptism of fire!). I have never received any coaching but played a bit when at uni (17 years ago), but not competitively.

I have no current coaching options and my only practice is a social night at the local club (with a huge range of mixed abilities so hard to get good variety with very good players as singles or any drills at all) and then match night. I have not got my own TT table nor someone to practice with, all of which is not ideal. I pre-ordered back in Jan a TT robot on kickstarter/indiegogo and that is due to arrive in Dec when I plan to use that at a local leisure centre to practice things like BH and flicks and loops off backspin which I can only really do in-match at the moment!!

So this is a long-winded way of saying I think it would be silly for me to assume that my BH game should be defensive/push/block only. I absolutely love the attack on my FH and need/want to develop my BH for attacking.

So with this in mind, I think I need to start transitioning from such soft rubbers, slowly towards something that will allow this but bearing in mind I am at the start of a season in a higher division and only my 2nd year playing competitive :)

I agree with the comments about not going for what everyone rates the best (i.e. Tenergy or Evo MX-P etc) as I think this is only good if you have all of the standard strokes well mastered and your game is at a higher level. I am under no illusions that a rubber will massively transform my game - only practice will and good technique - but rubber choice will have an impact and change that so think I should give it some thought.

Appreciate the thoughts! Am thinking right now then Aurus Sound on my FH and maybe Xiom Vega Europe or a harder one on BH or even the GEWO Thunderball 2. My newest blade is actually a Falcon Fast (Joola Legend is the 17yr old one I put DHS H3's on and completely couldn't play with easily!!)

Thanks!


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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2017, 10:31 
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Blade: Xiom Offensive S
FH: Tibhar MXP max
BH: TSP Regalis max
Jdd3 I am reading into your language that you are in the UK, yes? Where do you play?

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2017, 11:55 
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Blade: TSP Black Balsa 3.0
FH: Tibhar Vari Spin 1.8
BH: Tibhar Vari Spin 1.8
I have recently played table tennis again after a 10 year break. I used to play back in college and just got the chance to give the sport some time again. I, too, am used to soft rubbers. I use tibhar vari spin 1.8 on both sides at the moment.

I think i get you when you say you dont want to dedicate your backhand to blocks/push/chops only and want to improve it. But considering that you're playing competitively, suggestions on your backhand rubber may be towards compensating that your "backhand is quite poor/weak".

Im no expert and i consider myself a novice too. But if you want to improve your backhand strokes up to your forehand's level, i suggest you use the same rubbers on both sides. If you want to compensate for its weakness then go for the thin and spinny defensive rubbers as suggested. If you choose this, some strokes will be 'easier' for your backhand, not necessarily improving it. So its really up to you.

If i may suggest on your rubbers, i think aurus soft (42.5 deg) will feel better on your blade than aurus sound (37.5). Aurus is known for its thin and soft topsheet so they may feel softer than the given sponge hardness. I believe you wont have trouble adjusting to its sponge hardness from joola 325. Additional catapult is expected though.

I hope you work it out well.


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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2017, 21:29 
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Blade: Joola Falcon Fast
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BH: Joola Energy 325
so_devo wrote:
Jdd3 I am reading into your language that you are in the UK, yes? Where do you play?

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


Hi so_devo, yes I am in the UK - Wiltshire area. You?

yobmas wrote:
I have recently played table tennis again after a 10 year break. I used to play back in college and just got the chance to give the sport some time again. I, too, am used to soft rubbers. I use tibhar vari spin 1.8 on both sides at the moment.

I think i get you when you say you dont want to dedicate your backhand to blocks/push/chops only and want to improve it. But considering that you're playing competitively, suggestions on your backhand rubber may be towards compensating that your "backhand is quite poor/weak".

Im no expert and i consider myself a novice too. But if you want to improve your backhand strokes up to your forehand's level, i suggest you use the same rubbers on both sides. If you want to compensate for its weakness then go for the thin and spinny defensive rubbers as suggested. If you choose this, some strokes will be 'easier' for your backhand, not necessarily improving it. So its really up to you.

If i may suggest on your rubbers, i think aurus soft (42.5 deg) will feel better on your blade than aurus sound (37.5). Aurus is known for its thin and soft topsheet so they may feel softer than the given sponge hardness. I believe you wont have trouble adjusting to its sponge hardness from joola 325. Additional catapult is expected though.

I hope you work it out well.


Hi yobmas,

This sounds like very sensible advice, and perhaps I am now leaning towards the Aurus Soft for BH and FH but perhaps at 1.9mm rather than 2.1mm. One option to consider. I can produce a lot of power myself, so can take a mild hit on the speed of the rubber, as long as it is not as big an impact on the bounce/catapault that I saw when trying the DHS Hurricane 3's I just tried! :)

Thanks again!


Last edited by JDD3 on 04 Nov 2017, 01:10, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 03 Nov 2017, 22:02 
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I agree that the Aurus Soft 1.9mm would be a good choice for both sides.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2017, 21:02 
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Hi Jdd3,

I started playing a few years back and I made the switch from 325 to Aurus Sound as my skill level improved. Its a similar rubber so the change isn't dramatic, bit more "zip", but still controllable for a novice like me :) I took this rubber after advice from a UK distributor and decided on a 1.9mm for my backhand and 2.1 for my forehand.

To be honest though, the best move for me was from another TT forum where I went for a Yinhe 896 all wooden blade. Suited me really well as like you I provide my own power (20 year martial arts background), had a low-intermediate skill level and no time to practice (League matches only). I played with that setup for another season and then moved onto the Yinhe w-6 as I wanted to loop more, and boy was this good (although I am now looking at rubbers again !!!)

The other thing to bear in mind (and I have this on good authority from a UK distributor), Joola are stopping producing the 325 soft, so finding something this year (or buying a few whilst you can) is probably a good idea.

the best advice that I see on the forums a LOT.... Is there anyone within your team/league where you could have a hit with an Aurus rubber? they won't be identical to your setup due to a difference in blade (most probably anyway), but at least it will give you a good idea. I know at least 2 players in the West Wilts league playing with these rubbers.


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 01:59 
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Blade: Joola Falcon Fast
FH: Joola Energy 325
BH: Joola Energy 325
Can I just say thank you to all for the helpful advice. I switched to Aurus Soft (rather than Sound, to get a bit harder) and it was a great decision. My first proper use of it was in a match and I played the best I have all season. Instantly felt more control, ball was not flying off as much and was keeping lower to the table in general. I feel much more confident already with these rubbers and now with a good setup to improve those areas lacking.

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 01:50 
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Hey JDD3,

what was the complete setup you went with in the end ?

Rgds.


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