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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2018, 00:57 
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Blade: Sanwei Fextra
FH: Yinhe Apollo 5
BH: DMS Firestorm Soft 1.8 mm
So I've (temporarily?) replaced Big Dipper with Sanwei Target National on my FH and played one session (about 3 hours) with it.

Packaging: BD has a much higher quality of packaging; STN's packaging is pretty standard, non-vacuum, with a thin sticky protector sheet for the topsheet.
Tackiness: The rubber was extremely tacky out of the package - it was able to hold the ball for 1 minute and kept holding! However, the tackiness was almost completely gone after the playing session - for good or for bad, I'm not sure yet.
Sponge: I don't have any info on the sponge hardness but the STN sponge feels a bit softer than the BD 38 deg sponge when squeezed. The sponge is very solid, with no distinctive pores. Interestingly, it has a kinda velvet feel, as if it had some tiny hairs on it. The rubber has almost no smell, as opposed to BD which had a terrible smell that lasted for a couple of weeks!
Weight: I don't have a scale but STN felt a little lighter than BD which is good as the latter seems to be too heavy for me.
Spin: BD seems to have a tad higher spin than STN. The serves were still spinny enough but I felt that BD was producing a higher quality ball with a nicer kick than STN when I was able to perform my best FH loop.
Speed: STN and BD have probably the same speed which is less than say MX-P's but still more than enough to make my FH smashes against loops unreturnable for the 1800-1900 rated opponents.
Throw: STN's throw is still low compared to tensors but I think is a little bit higher than the BD's.
Price: Only a few stores carry either of the rubbers. Cole has BD for $18 (sale price). I got my sheets of BD and STN on Amazon: $23.99 for BD and $29.99 for STN, free shipping with Prime.

Since it's only been 3 hours of playing, STN might have not "broken in" yet - we'll see if its characteristics change after I've played a couple more sessions with it.
Overall, the two rubbers play very similarly to me, and I had no problems when switching from BD to STN.


Last edited by ziv on 24 Nov 2018, 00:59, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 23 Nov 2018, 04:07 
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Did you get to play with the STN some more? Any additional thoughts?

I have not played with BD but recently ordered STN as a replacement for my FH rubber (Gambler Burst with GearZ sponge). While the Burst is pretty good, I thought the sponge was a bit too soft and I wanted something a little harder (38-40 degrees). Based on your review, it appears that STN may not be what I'm looking for if the sponge is softer than 38 degrees.

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Primary: Sanwei Fextra, Sanwei Target National on FH, Palio AK47 red on BH
Backup: Sanwei M8 Junior, Gambler Burst on FH, Stiga Mantra M on BH
Motto: Always Learnin'


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PostPosted: 23 Nov 2018, 10:56 
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Buy a scale. They don't cost much.

https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?ca ... cale+0.01g

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1000g-0 ... 96527.html

Image

Weighing rubber is lots of fun.. :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 24 Nov 2018, 00:57 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Weighing rubber is lots of fun.. :lol:

I guess I haven't got this far in my EJ-ing yet ;)


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PostPosted: 24 Nov 2018, 01:16 
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learninTT wrote:
Did you get to play with the STN some more? Any additional thoughts?

Yes, I've played another session with it.

The rubber is barely tacky at this point, the tackiness won't return if the rubber is washed with water. It seems that my first impression about STN being lighter than BD was indeed correct. I find lifting backspin balls a little easier with STN that with BD, due to the higher throw, perhaps. It's easier to keep the serves short than with tensor rubbers, and my opponents have problems with the spin quite often.

Overall, I'm happy with STN. On Wed, I tried playing with MX-S that I used to play before, and I definitely prefer STN.

learninTT wrote:
I have not played with BD but recently ordered STN as a replacement for my FH rubber (Gambler Burst with GearZ sponge). While the Burst is pretty good, I thought the sponge was a bit too soft and I wanted something a little harder (38-40 degrees). Based on your review, it appears that STN may not be what I'm looking for if the sponge is softer than 38 degrees.

Sorry for the confusion - by saying that, I meant that it felt softer when squeezed. I wasn't able to tell any sponge hardness difference between the two when playing.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2018, 00:10 
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Quote:
Yes, I've played another session with it.

The rubber is barely tacky at this point, the tackiness won't return if the rubber is washed with water. It seems that my first impression about STN being lighter than BD was indeed correct. I find lifting backspin balls a little easier with STN that with BD, due to the higher throw, perhaps. It's easier to keep the serves short than with tensor rubbers, and my opponents have problems with the spin quite often.

If it doesn't retain its tackiness, I'll have to see if it works well for me since I was looking for a tacky forehand rubber. It is good to know that lifting backspin balls is easier though.

Quote:
I meant that it felt softer when squeezed. I wasn't able to tell any sponge hardness difference between the two when playing.

Good to know that you were not referring to the sponge hardness. I guess I'll just have to play with it and find out. :)

Thanks for answering my questions!

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Paddles
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Primary: Sanwei Fextra, Sanwei Target National on FH, Palio AK47 red on BH
Backup: Sanwei M8 Junior, Gambler Burst on FH, Stiga Mantra M on BH
Motto: Always Learnin'


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2018, 01:27 
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iskandar taib wrote:

Those appear to be quite small in size and advertized to weigh coins and gems . Can you balance a TT rubber sheet or blade on top of it to weigh it?

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Paddles
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Primary: Sanwei Fextra, Sanwei Target National on FH, Palio AK47 red on BH
Backup: Sanwei M8 Junior, Gambler Burst on FH, Stiga Mantra M on BH
Motto: Always Learnin'


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2018, 01:34 
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Place a lightweight container or a suitable platform on the scale and press "Tare" (which probably every such scale has). This subtracts the weight of the container or platform and zeros the scale.
Or, just do the subtraction yourself.

Thanks iskandar taib. I didn't know .01g scales were so cheap now.
Almost never need .01g resolution, but sometimes could use knowing if ".1" is really ".05" or ".15".


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2018, 02:12 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Weighing rubber is lots of fun.. :lol:

Yes. For example, please see my thread about the loss of, I guess, factory applied booster viewtopic.php?f=53&t=33667 .

Shameless thread hijack, sorry. To make up for it I will give you my notes on STN. I'll just dump them here unedited. As you will see, I ran into this problem of the (presumed) factory applied booster evaporating and leaving the rubber pretty limp, and dished too. In the above linked thread I talked about how I had accidentally accelerated this evaporation (with a different rubber). As the notes below say, STN is a tremendous offensive rubber.

(ALMOST) UNEDITED DUMP OF MY NOTES ABOUT STN:
***STN:
First impression, on a YEO, is that it might be easily a class above, but it's also faster. Must play with it.
Must compare to other modern rubbers, beginning with OVA.
It's spinny without doubt, but plays soft, as soft as OVA. I will probably prefer OVIIA.
It's a tremendous offensive rubber. Makes me consider abandoning chops, etc, and going full offensive.
Xxxx said it's spinnier than his/her OVA. (Week later, said it was spinnier than his/her OVIIA.)
It's harder than OVA.
Played a full session with it. Accuracy was good enough. Backhand was good. Not too fast. Just a little rubbery.
Short game weak. Not as versatile as e.g. S2.
A max JGT might beat this due to greater topsheet authority, but expensive to try it.
Eliminated HK1+, but is likely to be eliminated by Vega Def for the same reasons.
I have adjusted quickly to this and the throw doesn't seem as high as before, seems pretty straight shooting. (Later comment: because it was deflating.)
Vs. JGT, STN's extra offense is hard to decline.
Vs. Vega Def, same as above.
Makes me want to go full-offense with the inverted, and chop, if desired, with the other rubber.
Getting used to all of these rubbers, but suddenly OVIIA beats this rubber easily: more elastic but not overly fast, topsheet crisper, chops easier.
(Later comment: probably because STN was deflating.)
STN can serve on a second YEO while I test pips.
Looks like STN is the last tacky rubber standing, vs OVIIA.
After six weeks and about four reinstallations, this sheet is shot and probably has been for a while.
STN is finally rejected on these grounds:
If I were willing to put up with this (edit: deflation and reinflation) I would rather boost real S2 myself, and Falco Long is reputed to last longer than this.
END OF NOTES

Summary: I think STN is a great offensive rubber while it lasts, and it can be recharged if you're into that. I'm not. When fresh (or recharged I guess) it is right up there with the best ESN rubbers.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2018, 02:25 
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Have you tried the more "advanced" versions of Sanwei Target yet? I.e. Europe and Europe FX? :lol: There's also Provincial (which, to be cute, they cut two corners off, DHS style..).

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2018, 02:46 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Have you tried the more "advanced" versions of Sanwei Target yet? I.e. Europe and Europe FX? :lol: There's also Provincial (which, to be cute, they cut two corners off, DHS style..).

My STN had its corners cut off.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2018, 02:50 
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But you can't really call those "corners" - they're kinda long and curved. From looking at photos on AliExpress, the ordinary $12 Target has four corners removed, and Provincial has two. These are DHS-style corners.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2018, 02:53 
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Zhaoyang wrote:
Summary: I think STN is a great offensive rubber while it lasts, and it can be recharged if you're into that. I'm not. When fresh (or recharged I guess) it is right up there with the best ESN rubbers.

So you think that STN is factory boosted, and the booster evaporates as soon as within 3 weeks?
That's interesting because I thought it might not be boosted as the rubber didn't stink and wasn't vacuum sealed.


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2018, 03:13 
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"Stink" is a relative term - even cheap Chinese sheets like Batwings "stink" - usually they smell like a tire shop, ESN rubbers smell quite different (a rather sweet smell, when you take them out of the packet). (And admittedly, neither smells the same as Seamoon or Falco.) ESN rubbers are also not "vacuum sealed" (in, say, the Yinhe or Haifu manner), but they do come in a sealed cellophane wrapper, which is airtight.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2018, 01:03 
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ziv wrote:
Zhaoyang wrote:
Summary: I think STN is a great offensive rubber while it lasts, and it can be recharged if you're into that. I'm not. When fresh (or recharged I guess) it is right up there with the best ESN rubbers.

So you think that STN is factory boosted, and the booster evaporates as soon as within 3 weeks?
That's interesting because I thought it might not be boosted as the rubber didn't stink and wasn't vacuum sealed.


Great! I was looking for an unboosted rubber since I don't like the idea of having a rubber whose properties change as the boosting effect wears off (quickly); not to mention the relatively short life of the rubber. I thought STN was the solution but it appears not. I wonder why the manufacturers don't make it clear that a rubber is factory boosted. Back to the drawing board.. :( :( :@

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Paddles
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Primary: Sanwei Fextra, Sanwei Target National on FH, Palio AK47 red on BH
Backup: Sanwei M8 Junior, Gambler Burst on FH, Stiga Mantra M on BH
Motto: Always Learnin'


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