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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2012, 12:08 
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Agreed well enough. Aurus works for me just as well as Tenergy, so no need to pay $80 a sheet, especially if I can sometimes get it free or real cheap. Evolution MP-X played even better and is certainly NOT a Tenergy clone. I also think it plays better than Tenergy.

Will Tibhar Evolution make it big time mainstream? Who knows. I pimp Tibhar stuff recently as it is indeed good stuff.

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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2012, 02:51 
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I bought a sheet of black MX-P and played with it a little. I am in the process of figuring out which exact rubbers I want to play with (I just went through an exercise of finding my perfect blade and now am matching rubbers to it), so I have three nearly identical blades set-up with a variety of rubbers. Here are the ones I have been experimenting with by blade, FH/BH: Adidas P5/Bluefire M1, Adidas P7/Tibhar Aurus, Tenergy 25FX/DHS Gold Arc 3.

I play with slow flexible blades where Gold Arc 3 does not work too well (I do think it would make an excellent match for a stiffer and faster blade), so I replaced it with a black MX-P with 2.1mm sponge. I mostly used it on the BH, but flipped my racket a few times as well.

So far I like the rubber a fair bit. I noticed that the original poster said that it is made in Japan. I saw nothing on the packaging to indicate that and if I were to make a guess, I would say it is an ESN rubber.

I have also seen someone saying that it is a close of Bluefire. Since I have a Bluefire, I do not think that is the case. MX-P has a crisper fell and much better feedback than Bluefire M1. The throw on MX-P is a touch lower, but because of a stiffer topsheet I can produce more subtle spin variations with the wrist snap.

MX-P looped exceptionally well, while still retaining good control in the short game and provided for nice blocking touch. I did not stumble onto any particular idiosyncrasies and to me it played like a further evolution of Tibhar Aurus, except with a bit more spin and even better ball feedback. Unless, I discover something new, it is likely to find a permanent home on my BH.

I can use it on the FH almost as well, but I kept on flipping the racket back and forth and still liked the T25FX more on the FH. I might try a red MX-P at some point, but my experience with the similar Aurus is that I liked black Aurus much more than red. Perhaps, I will wait for the MX-S to come out and try that on the FH.

ILya

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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2013, 08:03 
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ILya wrote:
I noticed that the original poster said that it is made in Japan. I saw nothing on the packaging to indicate that and if I were to make a guess, I would say it is an ESN rubber.

I have also seen someone saying that it is a close of Bluefire. Since I have a Bluefire, I do not think that is the case. MX-P has a crisper fell and much better feedback than Bluefire M1. The throw on MX-P is a touch lower, but because of a stiffer topsheet I can produce more subtle spin variations with the wrist snap.

MX-P looped exceptionally well, while still retaining good control in the short game and provided for nice blocking touch. I did not stumble onto any particular idiosyncrasies and to me it played like a further evolution of Tibhar Aurus, except with a bit more spin and even better ball feedback. Unless, I discover something new, it is likely to find a permanent home on my BH.
Yes, I think the same, Evolution has a much better feeling than Bluefire. In my opinion, the Evolution rubbers have more spin and are much more close to Tenergy rubbers.

One thing, I have to say, I am not 100% sure. I wrote in my first posting:

Walee76 wrote:
Here is it: The new rubber of Vladimir Samsonov!

TIBHAR Evolution

There are 4 versions of this great japanese rubber:

Evolution FX-P
Evolution EL-P
Evolution MX-P
Evolution MX-S
I don´t know 100%, if the rubbers are "made in japan". For me, it was without doubt, that they come from Japan, because everything is same like Tenergy: The sticker on package with the thickness and colour of rubber. The rubber itself has original japanese size (it is higher than ESN-rubbers, which are 17 x 17 cm). And the 6-piece-box is also same like this from Butterfly and the sticker on this box, too.
So for me, it was doubtless, that the rubber is produced 100% in Japan. And also the feeling of playing this rubber, the spin, the contact time of ball on the rubber, it´s original japanese style.

Because I was not 100% sure, where the rubber is produced, I asked Tibhar company. They told me, that they can give informations to all other Tibhar rubbers, where they are produced, for example Speedy Spin, Vari Spin, Nianmor, Grass (Japan), Grip-S (China), Genius, Aurus, 1Q and 5Q rubbers (germany), but they give no informations about their Evolution rubbers, where the rubber is produced or which parts of the complete rubber is produced in which country.

Then I asked a person, who is very very close to Tibhar company. He told me, that it is a big secret and the parts of the rubber are not produced only in one country. It told me, it is a "HCP". I asked, what means "HCP" and he told, it is a "hybrid construction project", but he cannot say more about it.

I inquired then again to Tibhar company, and argued, that the rubber size, the feeling and spin of the Evolution, the package with sticker and the 6-piece-box with sticker, everything is telling me, that the rubber comes from Japan. Tibhar told me again, that they can´t (don´t want) answer any question to these rubbers, everything is told on the description on the package and in onlinestores and catalogs and furthermore the product design must nothing mean concerning the production places, because one of the main markets for the Evolution rubbers is Japan, so it would be not surprising, if the product design is adapted especial for the japanese market.
They added in their response, that it should not be important, in which countries a product is produced, because the vital importance is, that the product is good and from a high quality with a great performance and they are happy, that they produced a high-end product with unique selling proposition and special stand-alone features.

I've been thinking for some time about their answer and I think they are right, because for sure, the most important thing is, that a rubber is playing very good and has a great feeling and the rubber is not better or worse, if it is produced in Hongkong, France, Germany, Japan, USA or India and also the name of a product is only important for marketing, but does not change the performance of a rubber (so I would like playing with the Evolution rubber same, if it would be called "elephant 0:11"-rubber ;)).

We table tennis player, there happens too much in our head and sometimes we think about things, which are not really important and forget the really important things.

There is one little change:
Walee76 wrote:
We got:

6 x Evolution FX-P black
6 x Evolution FX-P red
6 x Evolution MX-P black
6 x Evolution MX-P red
1 x Evolution EL-P black test-rubber (official allowed 01.01.2013)
1 x Evolution MX-S red test-rubber (official allowed 01.01.2013)
some new blades

My son is using now Evolution MX-P black (forehand) and Evolution FX-P red (backhand), blade is now Tibhar Illusion Killer. (before: Tenergy 05, Tenergy 05-FX and blade Korbel SK7)

I am using now Evolution MX-S red / MX-P red (forehand) and Evolution MX-P black (backhand), blade is still Butterfly Boll ALC (I did not yet try a new blade of Tibhar and to be honest: I am not the best friend of Tibhar blades). My rubbers before: Tenergy 05 (forehand) and Tenergy 64 (backhand).

Because we did only get 1 MX-S rubber and Tibhar told me, that they will not launch this rubber in season 2012/2013, I changed my forehand rubber from MX-S to MX-P. EL-P is available since some weeks, I changed now from MX-P on backhand to EL-P. My son still plays MX-P and FX-P.

One more information to my rating and descripton:
Walee76 wrote:
my rating and description of Tibhar Evolution rubbers:

FX-P is the softest version of Evolution rubbers, for all players who used a rubber like Tenergy 05-FX.

EL-P is a medium-sponge version for all players, who don´t want to play with a soft rubber, but cannot play with a hard rubber.

MX-P is a hard-sponge version for players who want to have power with shorter movement-technique or need speed without having the best hand- & arm-acceleration. The own catapult of the MX-P version is a little bit higher than the MX-S version, so the speed, maximum-spin and power comes more from the included power of the rubber and you need not so much acceleration of your body (it is not necessary to "activate" the rubber, because it has more build-in-catapult, so you can produce the same spin and power with a shorter and slower technique).

MX-S is a hard-sponge version for players who have a good hand- & arm-acceleration and have a little bit longer movement-technique. The own catapult of the MX-S version is a little bit less than the MX-P version, so the speed, maximum-spin and power comes more from your acceleration of your body (you "activate" the rubber with your longer and faster technique).
The EL-P rubber is a medium-sponge rubber, but the hardness is closer to MX-P that to FX-P.

I think, that the EL-P has the softer sponge, but a little bit harder surface and the MX-P has a harder sponge, but a little bit softer surface, so the difference of hardness between EL-P to MX-P is not huge. You will feel the difference, it will make not a world of difference as day and night.

The FX-P is much softer than EL-P and MX-P. The hardness is like a speedglued Sriver FX and harder than Genius Sound and Aurus Sound, but softer than Aurus Soft.


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2013, 03:39 
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Which of the Evolution rubbers would be best for the occasional forehand chop? I was thinking EL-P, but maybe MX-P would be better with its softer topsheet. Any ideas?

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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2013, 09:09 
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I have played with T05 for previous ~four years, but I am very happy with MX-P on a Viscaria after about a month now. I play with it just as well as T-05 and like it just as much. It feels different. Harder, lower, a bit faster, and yet great on defensive shots. You will feel a more distinct impact when the ball hits your blade for sure. (If you are used to T05, at first it will feel like you are slapping your hand against a brick wall). It has nothing at all of the mushiness that I have always liked in T05. None of it. It feels completely different but it is nevertheless a great feel, and I think the main reason is that like T05, it has a ton of gears--actually more gears. But it doesn't throw anywhere near as high. In spite of this big difference, I have been able to adjust very easily from T05, since for me throw angle of a rubber is very easy to adjust to. I have tried a bunch of other "Tenergy-alternative" rubbers before and didn't like them. I have been starting to wonder if I would at some point lose credibility on TT forums because I basically have not had much positive to say about any inverted rubber since I started playing with Tenergy some years back. This one -- finally -- I do like, a lot. MX-P is not attempting to be just like Tenergy, it is actually something new. The topsheet is almost tacky -- not Chinese tackiness, but much tackier than Tenergy and softer. It has a quite shiny appearance that seems to last with several weeks of heavy play. The sponge is harder, the weight is the same. T25 has a hard feel too (from pip structure, not sponge), which ends up slowing it down a lot. MX-P's hard sponge results in a rubber that is quite fast, distinctly faster than T05. The rubber appears so far to be quite durable and very resistant to crumbling around edges more so than Tenergy. I have not played very much with Bluefire M1, and I thought Bluefire M2 was definitely ok but had some things I definitely did not like. MX-P is definitely better for me than either of those, which are ironically quite a bit more like Tenergy overall.

The thing I find very interesting about MX-P is that it is very easy for a Tenergy user to switch to this without changing very much at all about the way you play, and yet it feels quite different and is not the same thing. My forehand loop is definitely not produced with a straight arm, although I try to get good weight transfer. You need to be a little more active in your stroke than T05 but not so much so that it requires 2500 technique or anything like that. It is very much worth a try for players at a wide range of levels.

I have not tried either of the other Evolution versions. I don't sell rubbers or have any relationship with Tibhar or any other manufacturer. I am not an expert on where stuff is made either, and at a point I pretty much stopped trying ESN rubbers because I was not liking any of them (and I had come to accept the ridiculous price of Tenergy). So I can't really compare MX-P to many of the others, only a few. In particular I can't compare it to any other Tibhar rubber.

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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2013, 11:37 
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Baal, you have echoed a lot of my observations about MX-P. It took me very little adjustment from T05 to Aurus, and the same for MX-P.

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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 06:53 
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Amongst the variety of Evolution rubbers, which one would be good for a modern defender? I have searched hard, but haven't found any definite opinion. Are there any pro defenders who use it?


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PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 22:48 
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Boy. This had me royally confused.. Bogeyhunter rated 1600?? Then I noticed.. it goes back to 2012!!

There is a pretty comprehensive review of the Evolution series on tabletennis11.com. See if you can find it... :lol: They keep it hidden among the other blogs..

As to which is best for a modern defender.. beats me, but I might point out that since Joo plays with Tenergy 05, even the hardest and fastest one (MX-P) should suit at least SOME choppers. Dial down the series if you're not as good as Joo.. :lol:

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PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 03:44 
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boffin5 wrote:
Amongst the variety of Evolution rubbers, which one would be good for a modern defender? I have searched hard, but haven't found any definite opinion. Are there any pro defenders who use it?


Top English player Jo Drinkhall apparently plays with FXS 1.7mm. On a def blade

https://bribartt.co.uk/product/jo-drink ... ennis-bat/


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PostPosted: 16 May 2017, 01:39 
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IMHO MX-P is not good for chopping. MX-P give decent spin for service, but somehow it returns rather flat ball chopping a fast topspin.
I am not a good FH-chopper, but all different rubbers I tried before had been better for underspin in my hands.

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PostPosted: 26 Jun 2017, 13:52 
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Doesn't a flatter trajectory mean stronger backspin?

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 01 Jul 2017, 15:54 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Doesn't a flatter trajectory mean stronger backspin?

Iskandar


That is also my understanding. Heavily-loaded topspin ball chopped should usually result in a high arc return due to not enough topspin getting cancelled or reversed. So if you can chop a topspin into a flat- or dead- or even the "floating" under- spin returns, then that is some Strong A** super-high spin inverted rubber right there !


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PostPosted: 03 Jul 2017, 16:48 
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The reason for the high ball going back isn't due to the lack of spin, it's due to the ball's reaction to the spin on the rubber (the same reason why blocking heavier topspin results in a higher return, given the same racket angle). If you chop topspin and get a flat trajectory, it's because you're doing it right. You're stroking fast enough that there is less reaction, AND you are creating greater backspin resulting in a flatter trajectory.

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