OOAK Table Tennis Forum

After getting sucked into playing with fast Rubbers and liking the spin and arc effect of Bluefire M1 found that I wanted the same effect on the BH - but this needs a light blade. Using a Balsa 6.0 of 69grs and using M1s and then a M1 and a secondhand Tenergy 64 I thought that I might jump in the deep end and get 2 T05s. To cut a long story short bought a Innerforce ZLC in a state of madness. If I'm going to stick two expensive T05s onto a bat it might as well be the right one since all the 'heads' seem to be different shapes. One problem with the TSP Balsa 6.0 was it did not have the 'kick' of the Balsa 6.5 that I had tried at a tournament.

Only managed to get one T05 in a 1.9 and along with the secondhand T64 MAX put them on the ZLC. Bat weighted 189grs which was slightly on the heavy side. The straight handled ZLC weighted 89grs with was 5 grs ligher than the atomic one. No FL available which is generally my preferred choice. In the quest for lightness stuck with the ST.

First impressions with the setup was brillant. It gave an edge to my game that wasn't there with the previous bats. With the T05 on the FH it was very quick and gave a good arc. The T64 on BH was solid and gave a lowish return. Got some very positive feedback on my game play and really enjoyed the sensations and feedback that the bat gave.

Tonight I swopped sides and used the T64 on the FH and the T05 on the BH. In topspin play the BH with the T05 was amazing (able to do really quick topspin returns) but once the game 'dropped' to a chopping game or returning spinny serves it was a lot more tricky. Ended up having to revert to using the T64 on the BH to get some consistency.

I have ordered another T05 1.9 for the BH (this should lower the weight a little) and was wondering if a T25 would be a better choice on both BH & FH. Thinking that it might be a half way house between the T05 & the T64. Would prefer to have the same rubber on both sides. One thing that did put me off the T25 was that it's the heaviest Tenergy. I can get the T25 for a resonable €38 as opposed to the €52 of the T05 / T64.

Did notice another thread on Tenergy 05FX & 64FX swopping them to the FH & BH respectively so it looks like I'm not the only one in the same dilemma. I could preservere with the T05 on the BH and would expect that I could adjust my game to keep the ball in play so that I can 'open up' with it to turn it into an offensive game.

Appreciate any inputs.

I think it was my thread on swapping tenergies you are referring to. I have come to realise that 05 with its high throw is better on bh. Actually I tries 64fx on fh and then even Chinese H3 but now I think I m going to go back to either 05 and 05fx combo or both 05fx. With 64fx my loops lack that 05 bite.

Tenergies. The most expensive rubber experiment in table tennis.

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Butterfly Timo Boll ALC FL, FH - Tenergy 05, BH - Tenergy 05
Buying equipment is like getting into a relationship. One night stands are great but you get the most out of it when you work at it for a long time.

Thanks for the response Rahul. I started this thread as a continuation to 'Changing to a Donic Black Devil Balsa'. You can see from that thread that I've wasted enough money as it is !

I was tempted by your setup of the TBS with the 05FX rubbers but opted for the ZLC thinking that it might save me a few grams. I also liked the bit of flex off the TSP Balsa 6.5 but reckoned that some real wood might prove the better long term bet.

What is the weight of your current setup ?

I hadn't thought about using a 05fx on the BH. It might be the best compromise leaving the standard 05 on the FH but getting a bit more control on the BH for tricky serves or chop returns.

Does anyone know how much weight I would save replacing a red T64 max for a red 05FX 1.9 ? If I could drop the bat weight from 189 grs to 185grs that would be brill.

Can you elaborate on this. What do you mean by "'dropped' to a chopping game"? Also, do you have difficulty returning spinny serves with 05 but not with 64?

I was probably a little loose in stating that since I've come across players (one in particular) whose game is defensive and they can create great backspin making it difficult to turn it into a topspin. What I'm really referring to here is not having to confidence to 'go for it' lifting the underspin into a topspin and would have resorted to returning a chop with a chop. My game is offensive and only defend when I'm under attack.


Returning a spinny serve is much easier with a T64 than a T05 plus it seems to block better. If I concentrate I can get the difficult serve back with T05 but in a Doubles match last night reverted to the T64 for consistency to keep us in the game. Found myself flipping the bat to get in a quick return on the BH with the T05 - not an ideal situation. The T64 seemed to perform better on the TSP Balsa 6.0 (only tried it on the BH - had the M1 on the FH - not an ideal mix) but on the ZLC it doesn't 'shine' as much. The T64 does have a better smash on the FH than the T05 on the ZLC.

Was of 2 minds to contact my local supplier and change the order of the T05 for a 05FX but just got word that the other T05 1.9 just arrived in the post this morning. Tempted to stick it on and give it a bash. What put me off originally ordering the 05FX was the higher throw that you supposedly get compared with the 05 and in a BH rally I didn't want the ball going 'higher and higher' and then missing the end of the table. The Coppa X1 had this issue on the BH and I had to remember to 'bring the bat down' on the 3rd return.

At least with the bigger head of the ZLC it can fit on another bat if it doesn't work out. Still this might end up becoming an 'expensive exercise'. Guidance from the forum is greatly appreciated.

Without over-analyzing this, in a nutshell, I would say that the added control of 05FX on a BH would outweigh the "weight" consideration. Even if you go for 2.1 instead of 1.9 like me. TBS Is a blade initially intended for older rubbers - bryce/sriver. This is why with my 2 tenergies (64fx 1.9 and 05fx 2.1) it is very head heavy. So I have had to strap a rubber at the bottom of the handle. This increases the weight but I would rather have a heavier balanced bat than an underbalanced, lighter, power monster.

I dont know what your level is but when I play people at my level (1750 USATT), I can return serves alright. When I play people nearing 2000 who can serve fast and long, I run into major troubles controlling 05fx on BH. So I know for sure my BH can not handle 05. I also know that the speed of 64fx combined with longer arc makes me hate it on the bh anyway (I have sub-pro BH technique in looping). Thats why 05fx is my only choice for BH as long as I can control it on fast shots which is something I can get better at.

Now ZLC is a newer gen (and fast!) blade made for tenergies (ala TB ALC) so its less head heavy. 5grams is something you will get used to and if you play attacking game, you will like it also. Thats my thought. Its more about head heaviness than overall weight.

I never weigh my bat because of this very reason that I don't want to over analyse the weight part of it because there just so many factors at work which can not be measured - spin/speed ratio, balance, dwell/hardness, sound etc.. Key is to get the balance right for good timing and minimal stroke/wrist adjustment. You can adjust to a heavier blade easily and even like it in time but you might not adjust your stroke optimally enough for a head heavy equipment. So, don't worry too much about it.

Bah, I overanalyzed it anyway.

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Butterfly Timo Boll ALC FL, FH - Tenergy 05, BH - Tenergy 05
Buying equipment is like getting into a relationship. One night stands are great but you get the most out of it when you work at it for a long time.

Thanks for the compreshensive reply Rahul. Realise that weight isn't everything and that balance is a key factor.

I don't know what rating I am but I would guess that I'm way lower than your skill level. I'm ranked around the 100 mark (Band 4) on the Irish classification list. Fortunate enough to get plenty of 'knocks' with those in the Club who are Division 1 players who have been bringing my game on. Starting to take games off them but not winning yet.



After the money that I've wasted to-date the weighing scales has been dragged out. Took the plunge this evening and replaced the T64 2.1 with the new T05 1.9 shaving off 4grs to a very respectful 185grs. When I weighed the uncut packaged red T05 1.9 it was 87grams and that was compared with the Black T05 1.9 that was at 94 grs yesterday. The cut T64 2.1 comes in at 49grs so the T05 1.9 red is 44grs allowing 1gr for the glue.

In the hand the bat feels more balanced and less head heavy. Under no illusions that when I come up against a much higher skilled opponent I'll probably be slaughtered in the serves but I'll drop back to the Balsa 6.0 which now has the T64 (realise that this is not allowed in competition). Given that the ZLC is of the 'new breed' I'm hoping that it will 'save the day'. Starting to realise why some players have 2 'competition' bats !

Multi, Tenergy is great rubber but, if you don't mind me saying, I don't think you need to be spending all that money on it just yet. It may feel great but for where you are at now it will add nothing to your game. There are plenty of decent rubbers which are half the price and will serve you just fine for quite a while.

Similarly, I'm sure your ZLC and Balsa blades feel great when you hit with them but instead of going on feel try focusing on whether or not they put your shots on the table! I love the 'ping' feel of very fast blades but when I play with them my loops suck as I lose spin and dip due to the reduced dwell time. Maybe your current blades do suit you but, given that you struggle with spin serves and consistently looping backspin, you may find you have greater success with something a little more controllable. Try a few blades of your club members and see how you go.

...and beware of the placebo effect!

I've been paying around €35-€40 for a sheet of rubber primarily from Donic. I did start off with a Stiga All round classic and Mendo Energy rubbers (total cost €78) but when I played with the a carbon based bat and better rubbers (S1t & X1 weren't too mad) I was able to win a lot more games in competition (total cost €130). Playing 'all day' tournaments is a lot different to a 2 hour knock up at the local club.

Now that I've paid €52 for the T05 with the option of paying €38 for the T25s (these may still end up being the better rubber for me) the latter are not too far off the prices of the Donic rubbers. The X1 is particular has not been lasting and after 3 months it's falling apart on the sides. The M1 was a dissappointment and in hindsight I should have used a slower rubber possibly a M2 on the FH. Did use a Acuda S2 but used it on BH and found it heavy and not to my liking. The money spend on the blade was OTT (the ZLC at €160) but if I don't change it in the way that I've been changing the last couple of blades it might end up being the cheapest in the long run. I was tempted to go with Chinese rubbers at one stage but tackiness is their 'game' and it may involve a different way of playing.

It's too soon to say if I've made the wrong choice since I've only just got the bat. Did notice that the new red T05 1.9 wasn't as 'kicky' as the black heavier T05 1.9. It will interesting to see if 'the best' gives a medicore player any results improvements. I'll just have to keep practicising.

Have had a chance to 'read into' your post having had a week now with the ZLC & the T05s. Have been fortunate to get a lot of 'play time' this last week. Your recent review as very interesting and the 'Europe' version is the recommendation from a local supplier of mine who sells BF, Joola & Xiom, etc. He charges €28 & €34 for the Vega Europe and Xiom Omega IV Europe respectively I can see where you're coming from on 'cheaper' rubbers. Did purchase a Vega Elite for a club member but he's more sensible than me & likes softer 'slower' rubbers.
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=21066

The Blk T05 1.9 on the ZLC is truely amazing. Pace is much quicker than my previous setups and TBH it's proving to be harder 'work'. With the faster game play I'm moving around a lot and it's a lot more physical. T05s forte is offensive and it keeps you 'on your toes'. Club members have been complaining of feeling exhausted after playing against me ! Key test will in the tournaments.

The Red T05 1.9 on the FH has not been as successfull. Did consider going back to the T64 on the FH but remembered that it didn't do so well with the T05 on the BH - the contrast is too much- plus being in a 2.1 you can feel the weight of the 190grs. It works better the other way around but I much prefer the burst of speed of the T05 on the BH. To keep the ball in play on the FH technique needs to be more exact and you have to initially slow down the speed of the stroke. It does not smash well and I miss the finishing stroke of the S1t or the Stiga Carbokev with the M1. It does loop well and it's easier to get the game going.

Given the thinness of the ZLC blade you can feel the blade bend and then it seems to whiplash. The combination of blade and the rubbers creates a fast spinny ball. When I played against one particularly guy who has a lot speed and spin the ball is nearly of control. The combination of spin from 'both sides' needs a lot of concentration. I now know what's meant by the 'Tenergy' ball - a ball that really has a life of its own !

I'm going to resist (on the FH) the temptation of getting a DHS Hurricane Neo 3 / DHS NEO Skyline 3 / Xiom Omega IV Pro. Did seriously consider getting a T25 (to try out ) but looking at T25 reviews on the forum did notice some posters who gave the T25s the 'seal of approval' but didn't stick with them (judging by their signatures) and changed to the ones above.

I wonder if I should have gone with the 2.1 thickness of the T05 on the FH and 'suffer' the extra few grs.

Sorry for saying this Multi but I think you are reading too much into this equipment business for now. For where you are currently at the difference between any decent rubber (let alone red and black tenergy!) is so small that it not worth worrying about. As I said earlier, beware of the placebo effect. When you can pick up a ball and do 100 counterhits in a row and 20 or 30 loops in a row etc then it might be worth trying to squeeze a few extra percent out of your game by changing equipment but until then just buy something decently priced and focus on practicing. Also, the equipment doesn't do the smashing you do! A smash is just a flat stroke you can do with anything - you can smash with a shoe.

In saying this I love your obvious enthusiasm for the game - stick with it!

I agree with carbon to some extent...

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Butterfly Timo Boll ALC FL, FH - Tenergy 05, BH - Tenergy 05
Buying equipment is like getting into a relationship. One night stands are great but you get the most out of it when you work at it for a long time.

I have updated another thread on the poor outcome of using a Tenergy 25 - I gave into temptation but to no avail.
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=21277#p232622

This evening I reverted back to using a Blk T05 1.9 on the BH and the 'new' Red T05 1.7 on the FH. I started out the 'other way around' but found that this suited me better. With being left-handed that I get more returns on the BH and having a bit of meaty rubber on the BH can make all the difference. From the higher seeded players I tend to get served to my FH with short spin serves so that 1.7 should do nicely. Also found with the FH in the 1.7 that a lot more balls are staying on the table since it has a bit more control.

Got invited to play with one of the Division 1 players from the Club in a 'all day' team tournament. From a practice session tonight (in another club !) I hope that the new found confidence isn't shattered tomorrow.


Thanks for the words of encouragement !

Realise that there is a different section for tournament updates but you learn a lot from playing a series of matches in one day.

On the attachment I have listed the weights of Anatomic and the Straight handle with the respective Tenergy rubbers. The tournament bat was the Anatomic and it gained weight on the day ! probably from sweat in the handle. It hit the scales at 193-194grs. And I was wondering why the bat felt heavy.

I took all the cut rubbers off the 2 ZLC bats and weighed everything. I'll happily post pictures of the individual items but I can't explain why the red T05 1.7 was heavier at 47grs whilst the red T05 1.9 was 43 grs. It might explain the performance difference I felt between the red T05 1.9 and the black T05 1.9 earlier on in this thread. Looking close at the thickness of the 1.7 and the 1.9 TBH I couldn't see the difference.

The combination of the Red 1.7 FH and the Blk 1.9 on the BH worked well except for the issue that I had on a 'Pop up'. viewtopic.php?f=44&t=21277&p=232955#p232955
For a 'newbie' I did OK and found that I had an extra 'kick' in the game that wasn't there on previous tournaments aside from been beaten by a teenager.

In the pursuit of weight reduction I've now reverted back to the red T05 1.9 on the FH and the black T05 1.9 on the BH with the straight handle and along with the rim tape it come to 184grs. I removed the old glue of the bat and rolled out the rubber shaving off the over stretch.

Did a deal with the supplier on the dented Anatomic ZLC and got a 'few bob off' the price as a spare bat. Wasn't too happy when my Division 1 team mate told me during one of my games that I didn't have an offensive enough game with such an advanced blade and should probably consider a slightly softer rubber or a different blade I didn't have the 'heart' to tell him that I had 2.

Bought a 2nd hand ZLC Innerforce seemingly the newer model of this blade.

It has the most unique feel I've ever come across.

Even with slow short pushes you can feel the carbon click

Compared to my Ma Long blade and Carbonardo 290 it has a much more carbon clicky feel.

I bought a black second hand O9 C in good condition which I use on the backhand.

Very spinny and fast.

On the forehand a red H3 which is much slower.

Planning on getting another 09 C for my forehand.

Blade has massive dwell time and that super clicky carbon feel is truly amazing.

The 09C seems to accentuate the clicky carbon sound of the blade.

The 05 Dignics I tried on it was old which produced a much shallower arc and less clicky sound.

The 09 C is not so good for flat hitting.

Like Hurricane you really do need to brush loop the ball.

Only used it for 3 hours but it does feel like an amazing combo.

Spin and control are its strong points and that unique feel.