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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2013, 11:32 
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Hi all

I had a question that I'd be curious to get people's perspectives on.

In selecting a FH rubber as a chopper, one option is to get a slow defensive rubber with a thin sponge if you want to be a classic chopper and almost always chop with your FH or to get a faster defensive rubber with thicker sponge (or even a regular offensive rubber) if you want to primarily loop/drive off your FH and chop with your BH.

Another option is to try and get the best of both worlds by selecting a slow defensive rubber with thicker sponge (or, I suppose, a faster defensive rubber with a thinner sponge). The question is, is it better to specialise your FH rubber for classic or modern defence? By trying to get the best of both worlds by using a thicker sponge with a slower defensive rubber, are you just settling for a combination that doesn't do anything well?

For a specific example, I just purchased tackiness chop in 2.0mm but it seems people generally use tackiness chop in thinner sponge. By selecting a thicker sponge, am I just compromising my ability to FH chop, while at the same time if I wanted to loop I shouldn't have picked tackiness chop in the first place?

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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2013, 13:42 
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Perhaps I should not be the first member responding to this post as I flip flop on basically everything that I write (which makes it interesting to say the least) but here goes nothing...

I also use Tackiness Chop but in 1.5 mm. I bought this sheet and a spare from BTF US and I'm pretty sure that the demand for lower thicknesses are just not there at least in the US. They had a sale a few years back for the 1.2 so I guess it didnt do too well. :n:

I don't know anything about the 2.0 or 1.7 but I can attest that it works for my blade of choice at the moment. In fact this is the best setup that I have ever used in that I can play everyone with it and it feels great for my classic defence style/pushblocker style. Slow if you need to block short and long if you need some spring but great feel of control.

The 1.5 has not bottomed-out yet. It chops great and it loops well for my slower loops and it hits well when I need it to. Still eeasier to use than short or long pips on the fh.

If I loose with it, it's totally my fault because I have a great quality setup which includes the T-C 1.5.

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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2013, 15:36 
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Blade: Tsp Black Balsa3.0
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the thinner sponges can actually loop better with this one although it`s probably blade dependent but I found that this applies with the def blades I have used ,the dwell becomes too much with 1.9 thickness and the feeling is unclear with worse chopping ability

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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2013, 22:11 
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I am biased because I use tenergy on my FH and have a blast attempting to play a modern game. I am doing a lot of learning to twiddling and trying and play an inverted game from both sides, and then when you introduce the LP backhand you can gain a ton of control over the game. I also find that it is more or less starting to become necessary to have a weapon to end points with (strong fast FH).

Additionaly, I love just playing pure defense. Often when I am playing way above my level 400+ points I am forced into playing purely defense and find that my chops with my Tenergy from the FH side extremely effective, just requires good technique. Although, with this being said, the wins over the strongest opponents I have faced have only come with me playing more offense than usual, high risk high reward attacking shots ( from both the FH and BH). So, I think this would help to learn to play with an attack oriented inverted rubber or a Modern Defense game.

But like I said I am biased. (as is probably everyone else on here :lol: )

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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2013, 23:06 
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One of the paradoxical answers here is Tenergy 05.

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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2013, 23:49 
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For me, the Victas VS>401 is the best combination so far as offensive weapon while still being controllable at chopping strokes. I feel it to be somewhere in the middle between springy tensors and dead chinese rubbers. It gives a ton of spin and since it is a rather hard rubber without pronounced bounciness, it is also very well controllable.

The only downside is, that the rubber is really heavy as it has a very dense sponge. I have it in 2.0 on the Victas Koji Matsushita and I am loving it :)


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PostPosted: 10 Jul 2013, 02:44 
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If you are searching for balance i found the best answer is a tensor attacking (not extremely attacking) rubber in minimal mm (1.8 usually) like vega series, acuda s2/s3, blufire m3, genius... With theese your primary concern should still be attacking on the table and fishing/scooping from the distance, but you have also good control for at the table cutting game and away chopping (maybe not extremely heavy/fast tospins, against those fishing is way easier...)

But this also really depends on the blade. My statement before was referred to balanced def blades (defplay, victas koji matsushita, innershield zlf, matsu pro model, def III...). A good way could also be slower blades (balsa 2.5, basa 3.5, tibhar defense plus, chen defense...) with more extreme rubbers in 2.0 or even max like tenergies, acuda s1/s2, m1/m2.... in this case the blade gives you the control you need, but you need more power to win the point...

If you really like faster def blades (like joo or def II) you shoold choose the slowest and softest tensors you know... or even non tensors...

Keep in mind i'm speaking in a very generic way, it really depends on your level... the best players find joo blade and tenergies good enough to chop... the avarage don't keep 2 balls on the table in a row with it...


Btw, i thing both focusing on pure defense introducing the attacks only in a 2nd time and starting with pure off forehand and then learn to chop and push better on the table are viable ways. It really depends on your preference and also i think on other aspects of your game, and i think that at non pro level try to mix too much could be not as effective as focusing only on one side...
For example if you almost only want to chop you will need to be very good, various and deceptive with on the table play (maybe twiddling and also attacking with lp), otherwise your opponent won't make mistakes... On the other hand if you dont really want to chop on FH so that you can choose a more aggressive setup, you can also do this and maybe just do some twiddling with lp on fh to chop...

It's of course an intresting and difficult matter to discuss... abd we didn't even consider the fact that a blade must work well with your pimples and your inverted at the same time :@

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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2013, 17:26 
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You do not need a fast equipment to force a point win near the table. Thin defensive rubber is spiny enough to make solid opening loop near the table.

Offensives rubbers are only needed if you want to counter attack away from the table. Offensive rubbers normally designed for fast blades and power shots so they usually create less spin on touch shots and on slow blades.

Optimal rubber thickness on defensive blade is rocket science. Thick sponge is not necessary faster.

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2013, 00:39 
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I highly recommend the Victas 401. Extremely spinny, not that fast and very controllable even in 2.0

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Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
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Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence


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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2013, 00:56 
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I have found my new rubber to offer a really good compromise of offensive and defensive qualities. I play with Xiom Vega Japan 2.0mm on a Defplay Senso blade. I find it excellent at chopping away from the table, but it also loops and hits very well.

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2013, 02:36 
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Yesterday I practiced fh looping off the table with this kid, 14 or 15, she was a mad, as in crazy, looper!

My 1.5 BTF Red, and loosing tack, held up against her solid looping. There were times I thought I'd overhit or I felt there was no spin but my loops landed and the rallies continued. :up:

Also suggest dawei 1.5 XP or reflectoid 1.5. For blades I can only truly recommend the cos blade as I am using as my main blade but I chop very well with my FW+ and 1.8(!) XP on the FW against a strong male practice partner...so as Omut pointed above dont worry about the sponge just get a few rubbers and try em out.

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2013, 09:11 
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Coxeroni wrote:
For me, the Victas VS>401 is the best combination so far as offensive weapon while still being controllable at chopping strokes. I feel it to be somewhere in the middle between springy tensors and dead chinese rubbers. It gives a ton of spin and since it is a rather hard rubber without pronounced bounciness, it is also very well controllable.

The only downside is, that the rubber is really heavy as it has a very dense sponge. I have it in 2.0 on the Victas Koji Matsushita and I am loving it :)


My friend bought Victas VS 401 (I think 2.0mm). He is a long time chopper and has far better FH chopping technique than me. In the past he has used Tackiness Chop (1.7 and 1.9mm) and found the Victas to be much faster. He said it was much easier to attack with but too difficult to chop with. I had a quick hit with it myself and found it a very spinny rubber, great for serves and quite comfortable for looping as well... My impression is that it is more on the offensive end of the spectrum of FH chopping rubbers - maybe like the Xiom Yanus (which I used and didn't like).

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2013, 09:17 
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NextLevel wrote:
One of the paradoxical answers here is Tenergy 05.


Yeah, amazing that players like Masato Shiono use Tenergy 5 Max and can still FH chop. Makes me feel like I should just keep using my Donic Acuda S3 and learn to chop with it.

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2013, 09:21 
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RevanII wrote:
Btw, i thing both focusing on pure defense introducing the attacks only in a 2nd time and starting with pure off forehand and then learn to chop and push better on the table are viable ways. It really depends on your preference and also i think on other aspects of your game, and i think that at non pro level try to mix too much could be not as effective as focusing only on one side...


Interesting... my view is that if you are going from a traditional two-wing looper and want to become a modern defender, you really have to be a classic defender first and get your defence down right before you introduce the modern elements (i.e. FH attacks). The trouble with going from a two-wing looper straight to a modern defender is you end up just trying to attack EVERYTHING. As a two wing looper, presumably your attack is already adequate, and you need to build up your defence to create some parity and the option of attacking or defending on your FH side.

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PostPosted: 18 Jul 2013, 09:47 
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Hey PK, read this review of Domination by Greg .... http://tabletennis.about.com/od/rubberreviews/a/domination.htm


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