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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2016, 17:16 
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The 'classic' rubbers are still around today and relatively popular. However, they were at their height in the speed glue era. I came across below the in-depth Sriver vs. Mark V vs. Mendo vs. Bryce test, but then realized it's probably worthless information for today's playing conditions. I think many of you have been around for a while and maybe many of you still use these rubbers. How do they compare against each other today, without speed glue and with 40mm plastic balls?

http://www.masatenisi.org/english/test4.htm


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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2016, 17:56 
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They're playable with poly balls,if i have to pick one, i would choose mendo mp over the other 3..these classic rubber have limitation in creating spin and passive play with the 40+, it doesn't grip that much..you really need brute strength to play it.

But they're many alternatives if you like the feel of classics such as Donic Coppa (X1, X2, X3) Joola Zack, Sriver G3, Nittaku (Hammond40+, Flyatt series).

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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2016, 18:26 
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Wasn't Mendo MP, like some of the Mark V and Sriver versions, designed for speed glue though?

I am an attacking player, but put high priority on placing the ball. So more than anything I am looking for control. I can generate speed myself.


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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2016, 18:50 
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vinuneuro wrote:
Wasn't Mendo MP, like some of the Mark V and Sriver versions, designed for speed glue though?

I am an attacking player, but put high priority on placing the ball. So more than anything I am looking for control. I can generate speed myself.

Mendo MP is faster than sriver and mark V and of course they're all designed for speed glue..Tibhar Aurus Soft may be the rubber you're looking for, lots of control and very linear.

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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2016, 21:51 
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I still see a lot of mark v and sriver on the tournament circuit, especially amongst vetts.

Maybe these players would get a boost by using a modern "40+" tensioned rubber. But they're already playing right at the top of the amateur game.

Really? If you're a good player, with good technique, all these rubbers work just fine.


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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2016, 23:06 
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729 Friendship SuperFX still seems to work really well with plastic(poly) ball. I am currently using a backup blade to "train" and experiment with 729 OEM version ( unmarked plastic wrapper ) and a 729 SuperFX ( FX-C). Without boosting both rubbers are pretty slow meh and very dead. After 2 coats of Falco Tempo both of them have a significant amount of pop. SuperFX has a very high throw angle while the 729 OEM has a medium-low throw.

729 OEM is only slightly tacky and 729 SuperFX is supertacky :D

Without boosting these rubbers you cant get the speed or touch play. Hard sponge and average topsheet dont work as much unless you boost. I have found the 729 OEM version performs much closer to the YRD that I use on my main bat. 729 SuperFX boosted feels much more like unboosted H3N for me.

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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2016, 23:27 
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If you want a 729 variant with lots of speed and "pop" try 729fx with the big pore sponge. Too fast for me, to be honest.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2016, 23:48 
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man_iii wrote:
Without boosting these rubbers you cant get the speed or touch play.


Respectfully, I call BS.

If you can't touch the ball short, or feel what you are doing, or control it, or generate speed and spin without cheating, the problem is not your rubber.

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PostPosted: 31 Dec 2016, 23:13 
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vinuneuro wrote:


Wow - a real blast from the past - this was posted on Usenet during my last period of activity. Don Iguana was, IIRC, Dave Williams. What a time that was - speed glue, an upcoming speed glue ban, a ball change (if you thought the plastic ball thing was acrimonious, you should have seen what it was like back then). Yeah, people used speed glue back then, but Mark V and Sriver predated speed glue and there were a lot of people who used Mendo without it. If you think about it, these rubbers have been through TWO ball changes and they are still in use. Back when the ball was 38mm, people rarely used sponge thicker than 2.0 - to compensate for the 40mm ball people just moved to max sponge. The change to the plastic ball is pretty minor compared to the change to 40mm from 38 so these rubbers should still be viable, booster or no booster.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 31 Dec 2016, 23:48 
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iskandar taib wrote:
vinuneuro wrote:


Wow - a real blast from the past - this was posted on Usenet during my last period of activity. Don Iguana was, IIRC, Dave Williams. What a time that was - speed glue, an upcoming speed glue ban, a ball change (if you thought the plastic ball thing was acrimonious, you should have seen what it was like back then). Yeah, people used speed glue back then, but Mark V and Sriver predated speed glue and there were a lot of people who used Mendo without it. If you think about it, these rubbers have been through TWO ball changes and they are still in use. Back when the ball was 38mm, people rarely used sponge thicker than 2.0 - to compensate for the 40mm ball people just moved to max sponge. The change to the plastic ball is pretty minor compared to the change to 40mm from 38 so these rubbers should still be viable, booster or no booster.

Iskandar


Yea, based on reading and reflecting on that a bit I decided to start with Mark V 1.8mm and go from there. From what I surmise 1.5mm was a common thickness back in the day, so accounting for the ball size change 1.8mm should be a reasonable starting point, if perhaps slightly conservative by today's standards. There is still so much positive feedback today for Mark V that it seems the safe choice when having to pick one without testing.

His comment about Mendo being a little stiff at low speeds matches some other feedback, and that was with booster and voc glue. Plus, I don't think this rubber will be around much longer. The only places I found it worldwide were paddle palace and dandoy. Seems like it was very under appreciated compared to the other two big ones.


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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 03:18 
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Actually, today, I don't think there's any value to starting with thin sponge. A lot of "beginner" rubbers are ONLY available in 2.2mm. Thin sponge is for special purposes - choppers, blockers, users of ReImpact blades, etc. "Normal" beginners can use 2.2mm no problem, just don't start with Tenergy or a carbon blade. The 40 and 40+ ball is what is different.

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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 07:53 
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Mid-thikness sponge is the optimum.

1.7 mm sponge is the optimum for allround play.
Thick sponge over 2 mm feels too heavy and hefty not easy to control, it produces bounce erratical, it prevents you from accurate play.

Fake Tenergy (china made product) always comes thick 2.1 mm and even thicker... Instead, use thinner tenergy 1.7 -- 1.9 mm , so as to assure yourself against fake product.
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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 08:20 
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I'm not sure what "all round" play is. On the whole the game is dominated by fh and bh loop. If that's the game you want to play, you should start with rubbers designed for this. 1.7 is not optimal for this and tends to "bottom out". Classic rubbers even more so, as they don't have an extra springy design (tensioned top sheet or catapult sponge). They're still perfectly usable, but you want them with at least 2mm of sponge.

If you don't want to play a two winged game, it's less of an issue.


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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 09:18 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Actually, today, I don't think there's any value to starting with thin sponge.


I still err slightly towards the nominally skinny side on BH when possible, since I hit and loop harder on FH – 1.8mm isn't especially thin, but OTOH it isn't that different from 2.0mm or 2.1mm, so there is probably some normal production variation and placebo effect mashing together in there somewhere, whether one prefers thick or thin.

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A lot of "beginner" rubbers are ONLY available in 2.2mm. Thin sponge is for special purposes - choppers, blockers, users of ReImpact blades, etc. "Normal" beginners can use 2.2mm no problem, just don't start with Tenergy or a carbon blade. The 40 and 40+ ball is what is different.


Yeah, I started my current EJ run by changing to 1.9mm Aurus/Aurus Soft both sides, have used other rubbers in 2.0 and 2.1mm FH after that, and my current FH rubber is only available in 2.15mm. If I want the rubber, I put up with the thickness. If/when I give Skyline 3-60 Soft a go on my BH, there's no choice but ≥2.1mm and I'm fine with that.

Beginning primary-age juniors often have huge problems with control, so anything that maximises control is good – in this case, as you point out, thin rubbers are often not available, so slower rubbers/blades are the logical fallback. Anything that reduces weight for those kids is also good, but it's secondary to control and not easily achieved if you're buying many cheap bats for a large group.

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PostPosted: 01 Jan 2017, 09:53 
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'Allround' means you play as much attack as you play defense and had a wide array of strokes you prefer.

Loop, block, drive, chop, push, lob, fish, smash, nothing is off limits. An allrounder might play with pace, slow, hard, aggressive, or passive. Retrievers are often all round.

So, Igor is suggesting that a 1.7 rubber is the best compromise to be able to optimally execute all of these shots...he probably means at the club level.

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