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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2017, 22:51 
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Friendship 729-2
Pretty slow but sticky / medium tacky and having decent grip. It can lift the ball for 2 seconds at least.

Very very bad for blocking heavy spin though. And difficult to control in high-spin rallies.

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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2017, 01:29 
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As usual, the red is heavier. :lol: Quite a big difference, though. That "double wide" packaging had me puzzled so I actually bought one to see what the deal was. I was hoping for some cool catalog in the "spare section", turned out to be a protector sheet.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 19:44 
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Managing an incoming ball with heavy spin is a problem to a lot of these cheap 729 rubbers at least. I love it when the opponent is using such rubbers, a slow, loaded loop is almost certainly a winning point.

I finally got my hands on the Dawei 388A-4 and Globe Magic Wand, both in 1.8mm and with 44°, respective 40°, sponge. The free sheet of Armstrong Vector also did find its way into my post-box, but any review or test on any material has to wait for at least 9th of May.

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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 18:46 
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I think managing incoming slow, heavy topspin is going to be a problem with ANY inverted rubber - doesn't matter if the rubber costs $5 or $50. That's why they invented anti - the problem was at least five times worse with the old 38mm ball, many pros were using anti on the backhand back then, to block slow loops. As with everything, it's technique that makes the difference.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 05:25 
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Can anybody explain the difference between the blue and the orange sponge of many 729 rubbers types which are sold as "pair" (for example "Batwings")? Is one of them more suitable for FH or BH respectively or are they the same?


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 09:41 
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iskandar taib wrote:
I think managing incoming slow, heavy topspin is going to be a problem with ANY inverted rubber - doesn't matter if the rubber costs $5 or $50. That's why they invented anti - the problem was at least five times worse with the old 38mm ball, many pros were using anti on the backhand back then, to block slow loops. As with everything, it's technique that makes the difference.

Iskandar


Yup but some rubbers kick the ball insanely higher on the heavy topspin. I found the more tacky gives better control like with 729-SuperFX but to lesser degree of control with 729-2. But H3 / TG2 with tacky give insane kick up of the ball for similar closed angle yet ball lands back on the table. So some rubbers seem to react more to incoming spin, some give control, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 26 Apr 2017, 12:57 
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H3 and TG2 _are_ slower, so even if the ball kicks harder off the surface it's going to be travelling slower after it comes off the rubber. Besides, inverted rubbers will reflect back the topspin in a block (giving topspin), the more that gets reflected the better the chances that the block will land. 729-2 does look like a faster/bouncier rubber just based on it's short/wide pips structure, so it probably does make it harder to block slow, heavy topspin. That short, wide pips structure also means it probably reflect less spin:

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The strong "kick" is evidence of what people call "high throw" - simply the amount of friction between the ball and the rubber - I'll bet Tenergy 05 also has a very strong kick. In any case, I don't think the differences will be huge, they'll be quite subtle. You'll have to compare the rubbers by mounting them both on the same blade and blocking many balls before you're sure there's a difference. At least, that's what I've found when I've been testing rubbers.

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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 03:01 
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I dunno but does the 729-2 look like it has a thicker topsheet layer on top of the pips ? H3 topsheet looks like it has taller pips but a thinner layer on the top.

729-2 was released around the same time the game moved to the bigger 38mm ball right ?

H3 original was released when H2 wasn't good enough with the 40mm ball ?

I wonder if the newer "40+" rubbers now have INSANE height in pips while ending up with a wafer thin top layer on the topsheet ! :o :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 08:25 
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The thicker topsheet would also contribute to less spin coming off the block (since it'll flex less).

Don't know when 729-2 was released, I'll have to check out the blurb to see if it mentions the 40mm ball. The thing is, there's a BUNCH of these things - 729, 729FX, 729-2, 729-5, 729-08.. and there probably, at one time, was also a 729-3, 729-4, 729-6... You wonder why, and what the differences are. There's even a "national" version of 729-08. What are the differences? I'm sure there are differences, again, but I'll bet they're minor, since I've only come across subtle differences when comparing Chinese rubbers, with a couple outliers (Ckylin, for instance).

Yeah, I've heard Hurricane 3 was introduced because Hurricane 2 turned out to be too slow for the 40mm ball. Both of these rubbers were designed to be speed-glued. Which is why, supposedly, that all the pros use them in a boosted state.

The latest trend does seem to be ultra-thin top layers, but pip lengths seem moderate (see all the talk about Karis and Regalis).

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 15:20 
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Here's all the 729 rubber images on the Russian forum:

http://tt-maximum.com/forum/index.php/topic,4916.0.html

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How to make sense of it all? :lol: Start counting pips per centimeter, perhaps... and figure out which pips are widest and which are tallest..

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 20 May 2017, 17:36 
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What a treasure trove of rubber structures ! I spent almost 2 days browsing through various rubber photo galleries :lol:
:clap: Great find Iskandar !


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2017, 14:03 
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iskandar taib wrote:
First sighting of Gold Arc 5 and 8 for sale!! At Tenryu.

http://www.tenryu.com.my/store/DHS/q?m=cat&tt=10

As expected, pretty expensive, Tensor-like prices. 5 costs a few cents less than Barracuda, 8 costs a couple (US) dollars or so less than Evolution MX-P. Checked both Eacheng and Tabletennis11, neither have them yet. :lol: As an aside, I've been playing with Tinarc for the last three weeks or so, and I do like it. Can't say it's any better or any worse than what I was using before (Whale), but it's definitely nice for a large range of shots - brush and heavy-contact loops, flat topspin drives, pushes, chops.

Iskandar


Two months later...

A look on AliExpress shows that Eacheng still hasn't started selling Gold Arc 5 and 7 yet. They are available, but though XVT and China Ping Pong. I've dealt with the former, not with the latter. Counterfeits are a possibility, but..

Tenryu has them. On somewhat of a discount. 5 costs RM128 (with GST) - that's about USD30. I CAN get it from XVT for $25. Then again.. why would I actually want it? :lol: Not really sure. Maybe I should go whole hog and get 8 - then again why not just buy a sheet of Evolution MX-P? :lol:

5 has the BIOS logo but not the Tensor logo. Weird. 8 has both (so it's not really Chinese... Neither is, they have "Made in Germany" on them). Supposedly Ma Long and Wang Liqin helped develop the things (though I doubt either actually uses them.. :lol: ). Note that 5 comes in 42.5 and 47.5 degrees (yes, German degress.. :lol: ), 8 comes in 47.5 and 50. Why am I even thinking of buying new rubber? A friend wants me to buy a sheet of something for him, I figured I'd save half the shipping if I ordered another sheet.. and I've been wanting to try something outrageously fast for a while and Tenergy costs far too much.. :lol:

Incidentally.. found these at XVT.

This is 8.

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And 5.

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Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 09:25 
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A nice, i would like to get some info on them ,goldarc 5/8(before i buy). Waiting for your report/review iskandar if you pull the trigger.


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2017, 17:00 
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If you've seen my previous rubber "reviews", you wouldn't hope too much... :lol:

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Training rubber
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2017, 15:29 
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Giant Dragon Cropcircles OX.

NOT a "training rubber" by any means, in fact I bought this for someone else (who wanted a racket "exactly like Robot Blocker's"). It's not even inverted. I haven't even hit with it yet, so it's more of an unboxing. But it's interesting enough to share, I think.

Packaging: Quite a bit nicer than anything I've seen from China, except maybe Big Dipper and some of the newer 729 sheets. It does come in a cellophane envelope with a sticky strip (which does seem a little cheap). But there were two surprising things:

1) There's actually a catalog folded into the package. Quite large, I had to scan it in segments. Nice. Butterfly used to do this in the old days, as I recall, though nothing this big.

2) OX sheets are usually a pain in the neck to apply, this one was not. Why? It's got an already-attached glue sheet. Makes applying it an absolute breeze. And it's the sort of glue sheet that permits easy, damageless removal.

Pics:

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"Advice sheet"

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2cm x 2cm patch:

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Bad photoshop jobs of the Catalog. These are BIG, click on the magnifying glass icon to make them readable.

Front:

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Back:

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Giant Dragon Cropcircles
red OX 22.7g 170x171mm 0.078g/cm^2


Iskandar


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