OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I've bought my exact same setup as I have been using for a few years now (Samsonov Pro Force Black Ed, FH = Gewo Nexxus Pro 48 XT, BH = Gewo Nexxus Pro 48 EL), made the bat up myself and noticed next to my ~6mo old bat, the bounce is very different.

If I drop a ball onto the bats from the same height (using 2 balls, at the same time), my new bat returns less bounces, i.e., with the old bat the bounces are slightly higher and the ball stops bouncing later after more bounces.

Is there a reason this should be the case? I'm paranoid it is because of how I glued my new bat, but want to rule out other options I haven't though of. I find it hard to believe the type of adhesive could have such a profound effect. At the moment, I'm very reluctant to play with it and its £170 waste, currently...

Many thanks in advance.

Hopefully it won't be as bad once the rubbers are played in though honestly I wouldn't expect like-for-like even if I chose the same set-up after a few years. Good luck and hope you get the better feel you are expecting from it over time and use.

It’s very normal. Sometimes you get one with less bounce, sometimes with more bounce. It’s hard work to find one with the same bounce as you already have. You have to bring yours without rubbers and go to the store, go through their stocks and test one by one to find one and even then you might not find the same one unless the store has many available to choose from. As with everything there’s some amount of variation. Have fun!

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instagram: rokphishtt

Also, you need to test with bare blade, without rubbers. Because if you put rubbers and do the test, you’re adding one/two additional possible variations. The condition of the rubbers also a factor. Even with same model and in new condition rubbers there’s possibility of slight difference. Add to that if you’re using two different types, and various degree of condition of the rubbers. Some rubbers are said to need to have “break-in” period. So it’s getting more complicated than needed.

More likely the blade is fine and within standard deviation/margin of error. If you’re still not convinced, then sell it and buy another. No point of having it and hating it all the time.

Have fun!

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instagram: rokphishtt

Thank you for the replies, very helpful.

I played with it today and it is noticeably different to my old bat - the ball does not bounce off the bat as far (more going into the net), and dwell time feels a little different.

I've taken the expensive route/plunge and ordered the same bat set up from a supplier who will make it up for me, and will compare that.

The part I did not disclose in my OP (as I wanted to hear more unbiased responses!) may actually be the cause of the difference, but I'm surprised. That difference is all my old bats I made up with Butterfly Chack Pro II glue, whereas this new one I made up with a Gewo glue sheet Hydrotec (https://tt-gewo.com/en/hojas-adhesivas/ ... drotec-duo). It may be that the glue sheet vs the Chack Pro II glue is causing the difference (will the latter absorb into the sponge some and change the bounce?), but this is surprising to me if the case as the difference is quite pronounced...

Has anyone else found such a difference with glue sheets vs applied glue?

Now that you mention you used glue sheets instead of glue that well indicates why the difference in bounce. A strange but true idiosyncrasy.

Very true!!! I have never used glue sheets for inverted or SPs.However,for pips I have noticed that the LP performs much better without the glue sheet.

I use a low viscosity glue and the layer is super thin so the pips work at their peak of performance.

Many here on the forum say that they like the glue sheet; that it is very easy to use etc.I guess it is a matter of taste but in all the pips I have tested the Lp always performed better with low viscosity glue .

I guess that for inverted the glue sheet or several ones affect the performance tremendously .

It is always kind of amazing that two blades that are supposed to be the same can be pretty different. Lots of variables-rubber, age of rubber, glue job, etc. To get identical blades you almost have to custom order a blade set. If you buy production models buying two at the same time from the same vendor may help (ask for the same or similar weights).

In reality, there is a lot of other variations (table, ball, opponents, opponents equipment) so that being able to deal with variation (by way of training) is a key to success.

All great points, I would have hoped these wouldn't have varied so much. I played (warmed up) with both bats yesterday, and the new one (less bouncy) was definitely going into the net more, vs the old one (more bounce) was tending to go long after I had warmed up with the new one. That seems quite an adjustment. I also tend to have a different bat (usually not the brand new one!) that I do robot practice with and in the past these have seemed very similar, its just this new one seems much more different.

Perversely perhaps then, I am hoping it is the glue sheet vs glue. Will see what the new one I ordered to be made up behaves, but if it plays like my older bat, I will be stripping the one I made and praying I can get the glue sheet adhesive off the bat and rubbers and re-glue it...

I only used the glue sheet after reading some posts on forums saying that they worked well. All the concerns were never backed up by tangible evidence I could see, so felt more of a purists argument.

I believe I may have been wrong!

When I get my new bat I might take a video of the ball bounce difference, and post a new thread around this issue in case anyone is looking to consider this they should be aware of this potential, if it is the causal explanation.

Best to try and get the same weight as your original blade,different density or thickness will have an effect on how a blade plays,I have seen this today with 2 copies of the same blade, the lighter blade is noticably slower with more flex and affects my f/h attack that I can't use it.Whilst a glue sheet does alter how an ox lp plays I doubt it'd affect a sponged smooth rubber.

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Tsp Black Balsa 3.0 Tenergy 05 1.9 388d ox black

Update: the plot thickens, unexpectedly so!

So I received my new bat made up by the vendor I purchased from. I do not know how they made it up, I would assume using water-based glue rather than a glue sheet.

I compared this with my bat I made-up myself with the glue sheets - completely identical on the bounce. Old bat I made up with glue and used for 6+months still bouncing the ball longer/higher, when dropped from the same height onto it.

Then, I thought I would take off the edging I have on my old bat, I seemed to recall I felt a difference on that bat when I didn't have edging on. As I have a habit of hitting the blade against the table when using downward motion shots, I had used this edging on it: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0C ... UTF8&psc=1 which is more of a sponge than a tape.

When I took this sponge edging off my blade, the bounce reduced and the ball was now bouncing off the rubbers when dropped from the same height almost identical to the new bats. This minimal difference I would now put down to things like sweat absorption into the bat from 6+mo of use (I sweat a lot) and other factors with the rubber being used longer and maybe making it more springy. This felt much more acceptable variance as very close.

So, my takeaways are:
1. Assuming the reputable vendor I used used "proper" glue to make up my bat, there is no difference I can tell between the way the ball responds to the same set up glued vs glue sheet (currently, from new)
2. It is possible that the sponge edging is having an impact on the rubber's performance in how the ball responds to the rubber - this was significant in my hands

For point #2, my theory is one of energy transfer (may be completely a load of tosh), but I wonder if the thicker sponge edging is contacting the edges of the rubber, which allows small vibrations of energy on the ball bouncing to stay within the rubber, and also prevent the rubber from small movements at the edge, which would reduce the spring potential, hence by having that sponge edge the ball can spring up higher and bounce for longer, noticeably, compared to the same set up without the sponge edging tape.

Anyway, thought this observation might be of interest! Thanks for all of the replies.

Top players fine tune their inverted rubbers using multiple layers of glue. With revolution no 3 it is common for at least 3 layers to go on the sponge. The theory being it improves the interaction between the blade and sponge via an extra elastic layer. I doubt your supplier went that far and may have used a more budget glue , worth asking what they did.

Don't forget new TT rubbers will always play a lot different to old ones as the top sheet loses tension and the sponge softens and boosters wear off.

Not surprised that there can be speed differences between ostensibly identical blades - they're made of wood, after all, and wood can vary greatly from piece to piece. Note the huge range of weights for blades of the same model. Not that I've had this problem myself, at least not that I have noticed. Probably much more noticeable for those using, say, OX long pips. I remember there were people judging blade speed using the sound frequency you get when you rap on the bare blade with the knuckles.. perhaps that would be the way to get a blade with identical speed at the shop. There are any number of guitar tuning apps you can use for this.

Iskandar