OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi guys,

I am looking for some help. I'm looking into getting a rubber for my fh that has the following characteristics.
I want something that gives really good spin on serves which has the potential to allow me a 3rd ball attack. I want something that lifts underspin very nicely and gives good topspin shots. But I also want it to be very good for aggressive pushing and chopping over the table. Something that will really bite and give good underspin in the short game and pushing rallies.

Would it be worth trying Victas 401 (cant remember the full name) it says its for aggressive choppers but is also good for attacking with, not sure what sponge thickness would be best.

Or would it be worth trying Evolution MX-S or MX-P or Tenergy 05 all in a 1.7mm thickness?

Or do you have any other suggestions?

Thanks!

The Victas VS 401 would work very well for this, probably choose 1.8mm unless you need more speed. The MX-P or Tenergy 05 would work well for this too... although they don't quite have the surface grip of the Victas, they still have good bite once you dig the ball in a little. The Victas would be the least bouncy and also slower than the other two. The Tibhar & Tenergy similar in this respect.

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Thanks Haggisv Would the VS 401 be the best option, or are there newer rubbers that play a similar way? Or is the 401 still the stand out?

I've not used it and not a rubber expert but the Victas 401 came to mind based on the reviews I've read.

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

There is no best rubber (but you keep trying to locate one ). Vs>401 is good at what you are describing. In my opinion based on 2-3 months of playing with it on VKM (but you don't know my play style and level, so...).

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

I'm increasingly sure that equipment differences are actually way more marginal than we convince ourselves. I think when neuroplasticity is factored into the equation, we adapt remarkably quickly. I'll give you a few examples from my recent experience:

I spent a few hours comparing three or four setups, involving various rubbers and blades with and without sponge. There was a huge difference between each one - shots that felt the same would result in wildly different outcomes.

I recently moved from Dr Evil to Andro Hexer Powersponge. The Hexer felt *hugely* too fast. I had no control at all. I was hitting everything off the end of the table, and had no touch for short shots at all.

I recently moved from 755 to FL3 on my backhand. My backhand felt insanely slow. I mean - chops would land on my side of the table.

So these variations are real. But you know what? A few hours later? I can control the hexer. Shots go long if I misjudge the spin, but generally it isn't too fast. Similarly - my pushes and chops with FL3 now feel fine. The ball lands roughly where I want, and it feels neither too fast nor too slow.

What can we deduce from this? Well, I think it's clear. The *marginal* differences in equipment design and performance pale into insignificance compared with the extremes of technique and touch of the novice table tennis player. Add in how quickly the brain compensates when it receives unexpected feedback, and I'm pretty sure that at our level we could basically use pretty much anything, and within a few weeks end up at precisely the same level.

As an example, take a look through the various blogs and EJ reports on this forum. How many times did a change in equipment lead to a *permanent* and empirically measurable improvement in results? I'd suggest close to zero.

The moral of the story: buy whatever you fancy. Choose the one with the prettiest packaging. Pick a brand you want to support. Buy something fashionable. Buy something because you want to show off how much disposable income you have. Buy something because you want to prove a point that you can get equivalent performance from Chinese rubbers at a handful of dollars each.

Heresy? Maybe. But maybe I'm right?

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I am going to send you a bat with my choice of blade and rubbers - I am willing to bet that you'd want to revert to the setup in your signature after a month.

Excellent. But play fair: as you know from my thoughts on a different thread, I'm not saying there are *no* differences between specialised and non-specialised rubbers. So with that in mind, feel free to supply:

- 1 x straight-handled, shakehand blade made by an established manufacturer
- 1 x non-specialist inverted with ~1.8mm sponge (per my recommendation of this as a generic rubber) by an established manufacturer
- 1 x long pimpled rubber, with sponge (by an established manufacturer)

I'll gladly accept your generosity, and I will use it for one month, and record my practices/games. We can see whether there is an appreciable change in my performance.

What are the stakes of your bet?

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

This is funny. Please do it. Everyone already knows he will play the same and it will be indistinguishable on video what setup LC uses.

But please do it anyway, just for fun.

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Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

Powasky - let me be clear. I'm not spoiling for a fight, or trying to mock you. I'm trying to make a very serious point.

Table Tennis is a tremendously technical game. At a simple level, it is about imparting spin on a moving ball, and applying forward momentum to guide it to a certain location. The actual mechanics of how to do that are clearly known and understood. They involve a combination of body movements, body rotation, wrist/arm movement, bat angle, trajectory of swing, speed of racket, and extent of contact.

That's a *lot* of variables.

Now look at the equipment itself. It's a wooden bat, of various composition, with some optional sponge, and some rubber. I am absolutely not saying that these additional variables are unimportant. However, I think there's a hierarchy of importance. At the most fundamental level, table tennis is about spinning the ball. Some rubbers are more spinny that others. In general, the more contact there is between the ball and the rubber, the more spin there will be. This means that rubbers with pimples will tend to be a little less spinny, and those with pimples that move when the ball hits them (long pimples) are even less spinny. Some rubbers are specially treated to be not very spinny at all. Add the variation of sponge, of varying degrees of thickness and soft/hardness, and it's easy to see why we all get very excited about equipment. Trust me: I've been there too.

However, in the last few weeks, I've come to view table tennis in a different light. I've learned that the degree of variance in my own game (and likewise those of similar standard, give or take a fair degree of strength) in terms of the basic mechanics of the shot are hugely more significant in terms of whether the ball spins, or goes to the right place than the equipment used on the bat which I am using.

Have a look at this video:



Over the course of 3 or 4 minutes, BRS goes from hitting a chopped ball straight into the net, to hitting the ball in the table 9/10 times - without making any *conscious* changes to his game. I did the same today, only with aiming. Without any conscious changes in technique, I was able to aim a ball within an inch of a target the size of a ball, 9/10 times. I wasn't aiming. I was just looking, and visualising where I wanted the ball to go. My brain did the rest.

This ability of the brain to make fine adjustments, given a solid foundational technique, is called neuro-plasticity. My experience and belief is that, within certain bounds (hence my ruling out radically different materials, such a long pimples, rubbers with no sponge, etc) the differences in rubbers and sponges will fall into the category of variables for which the brain can compensate.

But here's the thing - it can only do that if there's solid technique in the first place. That is if the mechanics for making the shot are optimal, and repeatably the same. I've been drilling my forehand for a few weeks now. It's nowhere near perfect, but against the robot, where I know where the ball is going to come, and with a grooved technique, which although it isn't 100% identical, has a fair degree of similarity each time, my brain is able to make the changes necessary to guide to ball to a specific location, without me making a conscious change.

I have a very very high degree of confidence that, within as little an hour or two, I could take any generic setup, made by any manufacturer, and do exactly the same thing. The first few goes would be wildly different, but very very quickly I would be back to the same level of performance.

If this is true, and I strongly suspect it is, we would all be much much better off spending less time and money on equipment and equipment discussions, and more time on honing the technique that allows the brain to do its magic.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Put another way, no matter whose bat I try, I still play like me.

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Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

Yes,
Brilliant.

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Viscaria
FH: H3 Provincial Blue sponge
BH: Omega VII Pro