OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I have been trying a few of the poly ball optimised rubbers that come through the club and have come up with a few observations, that may just be coincidental, but I found interesting all the same.

I find that the poly ball optimised rubbers, to me at least, feel to have less tension in the top sheet and that might attribute to the soft feel of the rubber compared to older non-poly optimised rubbers. I have also noticed that my old tensors, like the 8month old Bluefire M2 I have, has lost a lot of its tension in the top sheet just from age and use and it feels slower and softer. But, it now doesn't have the slipping sensation with the poly balls as it did when it was new.

I also wonder if the less tensioned top sheet makes the softer sponged poly rubbers feel mushy and require a harder sponge to compensate.

Now with new rubber, MX-P, I sometimes get a slight slipping sensation on fine contact with the poly ball, but the rubber top sheet feels more lively, springy and tensioned which is more valuable to me then not. Over all I like the fresher tensor better then the poly-optimised rubbers I've played with so far.

I have however not played with the Tibhar "-S" series or the XIOM "DF" series rubbers, only the Plaxxon and Acuda P series. So the newer poly rubbers may have a different quality.

Do you have any observations on the poly optimised rubbers? What are your take away thoughts on them after testing or playing with them?

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CORNILLEAU Hugo Calderano FOCO OFF+
FH: ANDRO Hexer Powergrip 2.1
BH: ANDRO Hexer Powergrip 2.1

Hmm... Interesting. I haven't personally seen any poly-optimised rubbers yet, but I might have a look at some celluloid balls and poly balls under a microscope in a few days and see if there are many differences - that could be the reason for the characteristics you describe.

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Main Setups: Giant Dragon Kris II, DHS H3 Neo, Yasaka Anti Power or Giant Dragon Kris II, DHS H3 Neo, Dr Neubauer Bison
Backups: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial (Blue Sponge, no. 22), Yasaka Anti Power or Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, Butterfly Super Anti

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Only self-proclaimed unofficial spin doctor of OOAK. Call me Joe or musicfreak
The author of How Spin Works. The Official How Spin Works Thread. How Spin Works goes to India! See my 3D Printed/Laser Cut blade experiment blog.

Isnt bryce highspeed one of those rubbers? Micro layer technology :/

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Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita Offensive FL
FH: Victas VS > 401 2.0
BH: Victas Spectol S1 1.5

Rating: Recreational Player

I'm cynical. I think most of it's marketing, and most of the top players are still using Tenergy (and H3).

Iskandar

Hmm, you're probably right, but I would imagine that te micro layer would help somewhat :/ plus, bryce isnt very spinny whereas tenergy is fast and spinny, bryce is unforgiving because it requires proper technique? Whereas tenergy can be exploited at all levels and professionals can bring out the best of tenergy. Idk.

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Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita Offensive FL
FH: Victas VS > 401 2.0
BH: Victas Spectol S1 1.5

Rating: Recreational Player

Yes, IMHO it is a bit of a crock. If this or that brand of plastic ball is some tiny amount less spinny or the weight is 3% different, it's not as if there weren't already dozens and dozens of existing rubbers that were x percent stickier or softer or whatever.

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"Once you get past a certain threshold, everyone's problems are the same: fortifying your island and hiding the heat signature from your fusion reactor." –Doctor Impossible

Marketing or not, there is a pronounced difference in the way that the poly optimised rubbers I've used look and feel. I can hear and feel the poly ball slip on the MX-P topsheet while on the plaxxon it didn't slip at the same angels, so it has to be more then just marketing hype.

Alternatively the old tensor that had lost some of its tension the poly ball didn't slip on the top sheet there either. I noticed it after swapping old for new rubber sheets. I plan on boosting the old M2 on one sheet to replace some of its tension and compare it to the old un boosted sheet.

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CORNILLEAU Hugo Calderano FOCO OFF+
FH: ANDRO Hexer Powergrip 2.1
BH: ANDRO Hexer Powergrip 2.1

I'm sceptical of any "poly optimised" rubbers. How can they be optimised for a ball which hasn't completed it's developmemt stage yet? Are they saying that they'll bring out a "new and improved" optimised poly ball rubber every time the poly ball interations approach their ultimate goal.


There is a belief that players are using harder sponges to address the relatively slower plastic balls however, I was tempted by the Xiom Vega Asia DF rubber (having used and liked Xiom Zeta Asia) but was put off when I read the sponge felt softer than the original version of Xiom Vega Asia and that goes against what I'd heard - harder sponges for speed for the new plastic ball, softer rubber surface for more grip and spin.

At my level, I'll still stick to playing with what suits my style of play and level. 1% improvement in a rubber at elite level is a big improvement over other competitors who will also being operating at 90%+. But for me, I'm way down the pecking order and although I've recently tried rubbers like Rassant Power Sponge, Hurricane 8, Tibhar MXP it's how the rubber feels when I use it that matters most to me and some of the older rubbers I've used feel better to me with the plastic ball than those 3 (personal preferences of course).

Yes, given that the 4(?) major families of poly ball have their distinct frictional and bounce characteristics, and are probably not all made of the same material, I am not sure how one would go about designing a rubber optimised for all of them in the first place.

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"Once you get past a certain threshold, everyone's problems are the same: fortifying your island and hiding the heat signature from your fusion reactor." –Doctor Impossible

Asia DF was a shock to me - much softer than the original. I still have my sheet here (black) - I can send it to you if you want to try it out?

I'm also super skeptical of manufacturer's claims, but OTOH I've found that my brushy FH stroke really suffered with some older rubbers with ball slip, and I've sorted that out by using the "poly optimised" Omega V Asia. To be honest though, I feel that I could have found something from the back catalog if I'd looked hard enough (as you say, harder sponge/softer topsheet is the key for me), or gone back to a tacky rubber if all else failed.

So I'm conflicted - are they just empty claims, or is it useful info? I can see both sides, and I also think each player's technique will decide a lot in terms of how successful any rubber change ends up being. I drive and hit a lot more on my BH side than loop, and I could use any medium-soft rubber on that wing really. IMO, it's more important to have a clear idea of what you're trying to achieve by changing equipment and pick something which fits some sort of plan. Don't change because the manufacturer says you should, or because something interesting is written on the packet, or (definitely) because some webshop has made up some random spin/speed/control figures which are magically higher than last year's ratings. (I know you don't do this yourself of course, but I see lots of people locally giving far too much respect for this kind of rubbish)

I've been rotating equipment and letting others try out stuff that I have. Last Wednesday I helped 2 people. One wanted to try different blades with the same rubber. Using spare rubber sheets he had of the same stuff he used on his match setup, I let him try two custom made bats, the only difference being one had a 6mm balsa core, the other didn't. Outcome, wow was the balsa blade lively in comparison.

From that he realised what type of blade he was looking for. Then I made up bats including Stiga Tube Alluminium, a custom made bat I use for coaching with different veneers on forehand and backhand and an Andro Super Core Carbon Light Off+ blade. He like the custom setup. He really liked the Andro blade. Usual reaction from people who test equipment is that they find something they really like which I put down partly to the placebo effect of trying something new. I then asked him to play a game against another good player - one with his "new" setup and one with his existing match setup. Outcome, he returned the Andro to me. He liked it but in reality, in a direct comparison, there was little or no difference in how it contributed to his play. He'd gone from being really interested in the blade to realising his own setup actually suited him better than he thought.

Another player wanted a forehand rubber. He played with LP's on his backhand and an old softer sponge rubber on his forehand - one of the Aurus range I think. His blade was a "defensive" blade. At first he tried the Andro Rassant Power sponge. He didn't think there was much difference between what he had already on and the Rassant. Then he tried a sheet of Rakza 7. He liked the blocking and serving but didn't like the top spin driving. I was moving through the sponge hardness categories in my collection. In the end I lent him a very old sheet of Xiom Zeta Asia. He loved it. We were using plastic balls and yet his preferred rubber was an old sheet that is no longer ITTF authorised (didn't realise this at the time, only when I tried to find somewhere that sold it for him and really struggled). Outcome, he liked moving from a soft sponge to a harder sponge.

And that's where I'm confused by the move of Xiom to make the sponge of the Vega Asia DF softer. Ironically, the ITTF only authorise the rubber top sheet, not the sponge. So for the DF to have it's own authorised number it must be a different top sheet to the standard Xiom Vega Asia. Is it possible that when people are measuring the hardness of "rubbers" they are measuring the hardness of the topsheet and the sponge combined". Is it possible the top sheet of the DF is very very soft, but the sponge still remains harder or even harder?

Thanks for the offer Andy. I would be interested in trying the DF out. If there's something you are interested in trying, maybe we can share.

I've just taken off the Hurricane 8. It plays a little to flat for me on the hard Andro Blade and I struggle to generate as much spin as I did when I first got it - it seems to lose it's grip quite quickly. I've just bought a sheet of TSP RiSE Speed which TeeSports were selling for £11.99. It's an old 2012 rubber so in many ways, I'm moving backwards towards older rubbers. Maybe the old Bryce would play well with the plastic ball - maybe even better without speedglue. I wonder if rubbers like fashion go full circle. Now that would be fun. All of a sudden classic rubbers which used to be speed glued like Sriver, Bryce and Mark V make a come back as "unglued" they suit the plastic ball better than the modern crop of "poly" friendly equipment.

And you're saying this is consistent across brands? Because pretty much EVERYONE has something they claim is "40+ optimized". Everyone from Butterfly to Palio.

Iskandar

Not at all, all the brands are using that tag line to sell product and I can only comment on what I have noticed in the few sheets that I have used. I have only been making comparison so far between the sheets and qualities I've noticed. I just found it interesting that the older M2, that had lost some of its tension, displayed a similar quality in regards to the slipping feeling to the 40+ optimised rubbers that I have played with.

The ESN sheets that I have used that are marketed as 40+ feel different to the previous releases to me and the observation I made between the 40+ rubbers, old M2 and new MX-P made me wonder if the 40+ rubbers were just under less tension than previous generation of ESN sheets and if that was the mechanism that ESN was using to combat the slipping feeling on the polyball. Personally, I didn't like the new "40+ optimised" rubbers I've tested, as they felt too soft and suffered performance drop too quickly, specially the Plaxxon450.

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CORNILLEAU Hugo Calderano FOCO OFF+
FH: ANDRO Hexer Powergrip 2.1
BH: ANDRO Hexer Powergrip 2.1

That's a good point, pretty much all the rubbers sold by major European brands (as well as the likes of Xiom) are all made by the one company (ESN). So if they came up with something "for the 40+ ball" it'd be across the board.

Iskandar

Most players that I know have not changed since the introduction of the new ball. Some players have, but they tends to try new stuff anyway, so that does not count.

I know a few players that also use Bluefire M2, and they've not changed, and if anything they're playing better with the plastic balls, or they've just improved.. hard to tell the difference of course.
One recent comment I did find interesting which may relate to your, was that a player said that before (with celluloid) it always took a few sessions to wear in the M2, but now they like it right from the time they glue on the new sheet. This person is quite sensitive to rubber characteristics, and changes rubbers every 6 weeks or so (they have always done this with other rubbers they've used), so I do think there may be something to it.

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