OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 30 Mar 2024, 08:54


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 28 Jan 2017, 22:20 
Offline
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 10671
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1384 times
There are MUCH stronger contact cements than rubber cement or table tennis water based glues. Not difficult to find, either. Anything used to attach Formica or to repair shoes would qualify. Even these are weaker than whatever Butterfly uses to attach topsheets.

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 28 Jan 2017, 22:52 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2016, 15:12
Posts: 430
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Blade: Palio WAY-003
FH: Yinhe Mars II medium
BH: Yinhe 955
I guess the secret to glueing a top-sheet onto the sponge is temperature. I guess you'll need an oven or at least an iron to remove them efficiently.

_________________
Red is blogging here >> http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=30522


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2017, 01:25 
Offline
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 13:38
Posts: 2524
Location: Washington DC
Has thanked: 563 times
Been thanked: 512 times
Blade: Koji Matsushita
FH: Tibhar MX-S Max
BH: Yasaka Rising Dragon 2.0
iskandar taib wrote:
There are MUCH stronger contact cements than rubber cement or table tennis water based glues. Not difficult to find, either. Anything used to attach Formica or to repair shoes would qualify. Even these are weaker than whatever Butterfly uses to attach topsheets.

Iskandar


Sure, but the question is....how do those glues react to the sponge and rubber?

Not willing to mess up several top sheets and sponges to figure that out.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!"

Projects: Player Equipment Grid
Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2017, 03:57 
Offline
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 10671
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1384 times
Red wrote:
I guess the secret to glueing a top-sheet onto the sponge is temperature. I guess you'll need an oven or at least an iron to remove them efficiently.


I don't know what Butterfly uses for adhering topsheets to sponge, there's a video on YouTube about how it's applied (big machine with a wet roller) and how the topsheets and sponges are put together. Yes, I think there's heat involved but I don't think the glue is a thermoplastic, I suspect it cures, i.e. polymerizes when heated. That means it'll take a lot more heat to remove it that they used to cure it in the first place. Someone on this forum posted about "recovering" Tenergy sponge (probably to put a different type of topsheet onto it). He put the rubber in boiling water, and then used tweezers to un-stick the pips one by one. Sounds more than a little tedious!

Japsican wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
There are MUCH stronger contact cements than rubber cement or table tennis water based glues. Not difficult to find, either. Anything used to attach Formica or to repair shoes would qualify. Even these are weaker than whatever Butterfly uses to attach topsheets.


Sure, but the question is....how do those glues react to the sponge and rubber?

Not willing to mess up several top sheets and sponges to figure that out.


There's all sorts of cheap sponge and topsheets available for experimentation. And you can always use cutoffs to experiment with (surely you have cutoffs of OX topsheets?). I'd worry a lot more about getting the glue evenly onto the top of the pips, and spread thinly and evenly over the sponge. The sheet-of-glass method should work, I first heard about it from an ex-Chinese national team player who was doing a PhD where I was going to University. His advice (he was a pips-out hitter) was to "find a sheet of sponge you like" and stick with that, changing only the topsheet when needed. Apparently back when he was playing seriously (2nd tier national team) sponge must've been really inconsistent. Had a bunch of sponge and topsheets for sale, too..

Table tennis glues are MEANT to be weak, the bond is meant to be impermanent. Even rubber cement was designed so that people doing magazine layups could move bits of paper around on a layup sheet, which is why it works for gluing table tennis rubbers onto blades. You definitely DON'T want to use even yellow tube UHU for that!

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 02:45 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 09:24
Posts: 1356
Location: Universe
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 102 times
http://www.eacheng.net/Super-729-FX-Lar ... 10835.html

729 FX Super, newly developed Large Pores Sponge now available 1.0mm thick.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 May 2018, 04:38 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 09:24
Posts: 1356
Location: Universe
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 102 times
iskandar taib wrote:
It'll never work man. Not with the glues we use for attaching rubber, anyway. The glue they use at the factory to attach toosheets is something a great deal stronger than anything we use. Try separating a Sriver topsheet from the sponge, you'll end up destroying the sponge or pulling the pips off the topsheet. If you can't get this sort of bond then you have a sub-optimal setup. If you really do want to do this I'd suggest using the type of contact cement they use for formica countertops rather than anything they sell for use in table tennis.

Iskandar


FOOL'S JOB ....



Making Buterfly Ekrips rubber.

https://youtu.be/SozRZAxg6vk?t=562

It looks they heat up the bunch of rubbers and then apply some pressure to glue sponge and rubber together.
Certainly, you need a heating machine, or you cant get the bonding strong enough.

Yes, gluing rubber with some hardware adhesives is a futile job. Nowdays, nobody would do the gluing job at home. Fool's job, indeed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2018, 02:29 
Offline
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 10671
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1384 times
So after all this discussion.. what happened with the experiments?

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2018, 15:26 
Offline
Modern Chiseler.
Modern Chiseler.
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 11148
Location: USA
Has thanked: 572 times
Been thanked: 578 times
Blade: WRM Gokushu2
FH: S&T Secret Flow 1mm
BH: S&T Monkey ox
Take a look at the Sauer & Tröger Secret Flow in 1.0. That's on top of my list of new rubbers to experiment with once I get past the tests I currently have lined up.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2018, 15:44 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2009, 06:17
Posts: 1177
Location: Yorkshire
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 103 times
Blade: Tsp Black Balsa 3.0
FH: t05 1.9 boosted
BH: 388d ox black
I used to use a 1.1 tackiness c on a Defplay and it was OK for f/h topspin,improved after boosting (high flex blade helps ),very high control and could land the ball almost anywhere at will with consistancy, I doubt that this would be viable with plastic balls being harder/heavier feel and will meet the wood too soon losing spin and control

_________________
Tsp Black Balsa 3.0 Tenergy 05 1.9 388d ox black


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 05 Jul 2018, 16:32 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 08 Jul 2017, 11:04
Posts: 461
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 123 times
Blade: S&T Black & White
FH: Armstrong SH-I 1.8
BH: S&T Hellfire X OX
PimplePark Epos is available in 1.0mm.

_________________
2. S&T Black & White / Armstrong SH-I 1.8 / TSP Curl P3 Alpha R OX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2018, 02:19 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2008, 08:10
Posts: 447
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 23 times
Blade: Donic alligator combi
FH: FS Bloom Power max.
BH: TSP curl P4 1,0mm
Spinlord Marder 1,0 mm
Friendship 729 higher chop 1,2 mm
Friendship 729 origin soft 1,0 mm
Palio Amigo 1,0mm

You can call www.ttde.de in germany . They have all of the above mentioned rubbers incl Reflectoid 1,5mm

_________________
brokkie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2018, 02:36 
Offline
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 13:38
Posts: 2524
Location: Washington DC
Has thanked: 563 times
Been thanked: 512 times
Blade: Koji Matsushita
FH: Tibhar MX-S Max
BH: Yasaka Rising Dragon 2.0
iskandar taib wrote:
So after all this discussion.. what happened with the experiments?

Iskandar

You can see there was a year and a half between Igors first post, and the last post of thread prior to that.

But the long and short of it was that I never found what I was looking for. Closest I found was actually what igorponger suggested with the blue sponge (1.5 years too late :lol: ), but when I bought it the supplier told me he only had it in 1.5mm, even though the ad clearly says 1.0mm is a choice. He also said he would never be stocking 1.0mm. I wanted large pimple geometry and/or spring sponge but in thin sponge. That rubber kind of fit the bill. Played well, but I didn't love the 729 top sheet.

I have migrated back to 2.0mm and I play a lot more double inverted now, so I am not really as interested in thin sponge. I have a double inverted defplay with 1.0mm and/or 1.5mm reflectoid which is the best option for playing defense. But now, if I play double inverted I prefer to attack and do some tactical blocking, so the 1.0mm isn't really necessary.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!"

Projects: Player Equipment Grid
Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2018, 02:40 
Offline
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 13:38
Posts: 2524
Location: Washington DC
Has thanked: 563 times
Been thanked: 512 times
Blade: Koji Matsushita
FH: Tibhar MX-S Max
BH: Yasaka Rising Dragon 2.0
brokkie wrote:
Spinlord Marder 1,0 mm
Friendship 729 higher chop 1,2 mm
Friendship 729 origin soft 1,0 mm

None of those have a modern sponge... or feel. The marder was the worst one.

Imagine Tenergy or Xiom Omega V in 1.0mm. That's what I was looking for!

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!"

Projects: Player Equipment Grid
Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2018, 13:31 
Offline
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 10671
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 1384 times
So you never tried the booster on the Reflectoid? I was wondering how that would work.

The 729 Super FX with large pores has actually been around for about 3 years, despite what Igor says (Eacheng started selling it very soon after I started paying again and posting here). I bought a pair of sheets (max sponge) back then, I felt it was very bouncy (pushes tended to pop up more than anything). I felt it lacked control, I even tried it Seamooned, didn't improve it. But in 1.5mm or 1mm it might've been OK for chopping. I still have a sheet left, maybe I should try it on a M8, it being slower than the N11 I was using at the time. Maybe that might tame it. I suspect this isn't an official 729/Friendship product, it's something that sneaked out the back door of the factory. It's certainly not sold in any sort of retail packaging. The sponge may or may not be 729's - might've been an experimental batch, or it might be something they use on some other more expensive rubber (maybe Battle). It sort of resembles the sponge that comes with KTL's Green Dragon, though the color is different (but that's a really slow rubber). Initially it was only available in Max, now it's available in thinner sponge.

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2018, 14:44 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 03 Oct 2007, 13:49
Posts: 661
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Hallmark Power Spin 1 mm rubber is of good quality.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group