OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I have the two sheets of 2.2 mm M from AndySmith. I have only used them for an hour or so at my club (I had to go back to my HL3 with H8 and MX-P for the serious business of top table: I finished the evening on the top table, but I'm really a good recreational player at the moment, not a pro by any stretch), and have one sheet on a PG-7 with Xiom Vega Europe DF and the other on a DHS Fang Bo 2 with Tibhar EL-S.

The major initial impression was how different these two sheets are to each other. The red sheet has a similar feel to a non-glue effect Japanese rubber, whereas the black reacts almost like a tensor. I do find this quite worrying.

In terms of play, I really am looking for something to replace H8, because of the tendency of that rubber to gather dust, but I'm not convinced Karis can do that job. However, I do need some more structured experience with it. The linearity (of the red sheet) is similar, but I felt it lacked some of the solidity and spin potential of H8, without offering a lot in exchange. The black sheet on the Fang Bo 2 caught me out a little with its rebound, although I could easily get used to that. At the moment, I can get H8 from China for about £21, or Karis from England at £37.

We'll see.

Andy also commented on this (the same sheets obviously), and so did my coach. It's not a small difference.

I remember that. I think he also noted a really large weight difference between the two sheets, which really ought not to happen. It again makes me wonder if they have some QC issues.

One other guy at MyTT is pretty certain that he received two sheets of M instead of one each of M and M+. (The difference between M and M+ is immediately obvious to nearly everybody who has used them, but fatt could discern no difference at all, and he is enough of an EJ that he certainly should have if he had actually received the two different rubbers). One stupid thing they did is that there is no way to tell from the rubber itself which one you got (no marking on the rubber, only on the package). So if they put the wrong rubber in the package, who knows? This might be an easy mistake to make at the factory? So again, all this speaks to some concerns about consistency of the product.

I have bought two pairs of Karis M in red and black and didn't notice any real difference between red and black -- not any more than other rubbers I have used -- but that is a pretty small sample size. I will keep an eye on it in the future. It will be a while before I know any more, since the stuff seems to last a long time.

I don't think this is the traditional "red and black feel different" thing. The QC on sponge hardness is just surprisingly poor considering the price of the rubber.

The test rubbers I had were a red M, and a black M+. When I used them, things made sense - the M+ had an obviously harder sponge, same topsheet. All good.

Then I bought a further red M and black M. The black M was basically the same sponge hardness as the test red M mentioned above (which darucla doesn't have - the test rubbers have gone to so_devo), maybe a tiny bit softer. But the red M darucla has is quite a lot harder than the test red M. It's noticeable in play but didn't bother me much because I was using both red rubbers on the BH of a slow-ish blade, and wasn't using either of the black rubbers at the time.

I can tell the difference but don't mind, but I can totally understand why someone else would be bothered by it. And perhaps I don't mind so much because I've only purchased 2 rubbers rather than 4.

I'd concur that there is a clear difference in the hardness of the rubbers Andy has kindly sent me - the red M plays very soft indeed. That is 'just' a 2mm though. Another session or two and I'll be ready to post some thoughts. I would like to try them on a different [faster] blade too.

LordCope and PGPG are visiting me for a game next week, so I will also offer them a test opportunity (on my blade or theirs)

I keep getting asked about difference between red and black. I cannot really tell, but all this talk about Black being the BOSS has made it hard to keep Black in stock. I got the last two sheets Nexy Korea had in 2.0 and they are already committed for sale. Black seems to hold mystical properties I cannot describe or identify. I have a Red M+ prototype on my ALL to ALL+ Lissom blade and I hit harder with M+ Red on the slower Lissom than I do with Black M on my Kim Jung Hoon 7 ply. Both rubbers are absolute BOSS of handling incoming topspin makes you want to loop the loop and play big boy. Your shot isn't 130 level spin, but it is heavy and pace/placement/control is enough to pressure opponent in a topspin to topspin rally away from table.

Incidentally, I had a look at the Karis on Hangdog's racket - the pips ARE short but they're also small-diameter and close together, plus the topsheet cap is thin. Below is KTL Super XP, it should be interesting to compare. The pips here are very short and wide, and the cap is very this also. Someone's sending me cutoff pieces to be photographed, but they haven't arrived yet, when they do I'll post photos. Meanwhile, if anyone has cut-offs of Regalis and Rasanter, or/and Stiga Mantra, I'm taking donations.. Oh yeah.. and Bryce Speed.



Iskandar