OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hello everyone,
This is my first post here and I need some advice/clarification.

I am an amateur player who was training in high school so please have that in mind (I play for fun with friends). I have a Galaxy Yinhe N-10 blade which has 2x Palio Hidden Dragon rubbers on it. I am quite used to this blade and like it overall except that it started to become a bit slow for me.

I bought the DONIC Black Devil partly because a friend has it and I've always liked it, and I wanted a faster blade. I put the H3 on the FH and because of my good experience of the Hidden Dragon, put it on the BH. Now comes the problem, while the H3 feels good, the Dragon is a disaster on the new blade. Playing my normal style the ball flies into the air and it is very difficult to control it. I have to use a very small angle of the bat but then I often can't get the ball over the net.
The rubber is 36-38 hardness 2.2mm and I bought it because of that, with the idea that it won't be fast but it appears to be extremely fast and uncontrollable. Even when I switch the rubbers - the feeling is pretty much the same and now the FH becomes an uncontrollable mess with the ball flying beyond the table.

Questions about rubber angles (I can't find a picture anywhere explaining this simple concept):
- low angle of the rubber should mean that I do not need to put such a low angle on the bat when hitting (true/false)?
- higher angle of the rubber should mean that I have to hit the ball with small angles in order for it to not fly into the air (true/false)?
- how does the rubber thickness affect the result?

As I hit with a lower angle on my FH, how is it that the 39 deg rubber is so much more controllable than the 36 deg one? (lower angle of the bat is more horizontal while higher is more vertical)
As I hit with a higher angle for my BH, doesn't that mean that I need a lower angle rubber in order for it to stay on the table?
What rubber should seek for my BH? I am leaning towards a slower rubber with more control.

Please, help me understand this.
Thank you!

Interesting. Another person who has used Dragon rubbers. They are a bit fast, while H3 actually has a reputation for being quite slow. If you flip the racket around, does the H3 work on the backhand? If it does, then the solution is simple - get another sheet of H3 and put it on the other side.

As far as degrees go - that is just a measure of sponge hardness, scales do vary with manufacturers, and the topsheet also figures when it comes to rubber speed. Also make sure the sheet is glued on properly.

Iskandar

First - welcome to the forum, and thanks for your detailed info!

The blade you have bought is rated as OFF+ -- that's very very fast indeed. Silly fast really. That's a bit like taking a 17 yr old learner driver and putting them in a F1 racing car. I'll put on one side whether there's justification in ever using an OFF+ blade for now, but as a self-confessed beginner, I would stick to an all round blade, or you're just making things harder for yourself.

In terms of why you're experiencig what you're experiencing - well, these things aren't as simple as we like to make it sound - there can be many factors at play, some of which we don't know about. However, what you're seeing is that the Hurricane 3 / Blade synergy isn't too bad, but that the Palio / Blade synergy doesn't work. How do we fix that? Well... several options:

1) Stop using the palio - as suggested, perhaps using another H3, or something slow on the bH
2) Stop using the very very fast blade
3) Learn how to control it

I'd generally opt for (3), but I think you've given yourself rather a hard task, so I'd probably opt for (2) in this case.

As for your questions - I would take any discussion about "throw angle" with a mountain of salt. Yeah, it *might* be a thing, but compared to the variations in bat angle and spin reading of a beginner player, it'll make close to no difference at all in reality. When you're a stronger player, with a consistent set of shots, and can reliably place the ball where you want it, 80/100 times, then yes, you'd notice the difference in throw angle, but even then in an hour or two your brain would compensate.

The degrees have nothing to do with angle. Degrees refers to how soft the sponge is - with a lower number meaning its softer. In practice, a softer sponge will give you a little more feeling, and the ball might stay on the rubber a bit longer - imaging bouncing the ball on the table - it bounces back hard and fast. The table doesn't have any spring effect - it's just a hard surface. Now imagine bouncing the ball on some cling film, stretched across a bowl. The cling film would produce a kind of trampoline effect. Sponge does this too - it bounces the ball. The softer sponge bounces it a bit more slowly, so the ball is in contact with the rubber for longer, which you can feel, and which alters how the rubber and ball interact. Similarly, width of sponge - thicker sponge, when combined with the force applied when you hit the ball, has a more pronounced catapult effect, so is, in effect "faster". But none of these things are as simple as I'm describing - there are a lot of "but...." and "unless..." variables. It's actually pretty complicated physics.

As a beginning player, really you should be doing this by feel, as follows:

- Select an allround blade that is neither very fast not very slow
- Select some good quality rubbers that are designed for all-round play, and not for a specialist style, and not marketed as extreme in any way - speed or spin
- Learn the mechanics of the FH and BH stroke - there are great videos available from ttedge or pingskills
- Once you have the mechanics right (without really worrying about where the ball goes) you can start to think about how to make the ball go higher or lower
- In practice, good players don't actually think "open the angle, close the angle" - their brain makes tiny adjustments based on where it wants the ball to go. Just like an experienced driver makes lots of little adjustments as they steer, without thinking "left a bit... right a bit"
- However, a crude model is obvious: if the ball is going to high, close the face of the bat (ie make it aim more downwards), and if the ball is going too low, open the face of the bat (ie make it aim upwards)

You'll find that with sensible equipment, and working towards universally accepted technique for the core shots of the game, you'll soon find you can control and direct the ball, which is half the battle.

Bottom line recommendation from me: stop using a very very fast blade; get a ttedge membership; practice. If you want input from the many good players and teachers here, then you can also video yourself with a phone or a camera, and post it here.... 10-15 seconds is enough to get a sense of how you're doing.

Good luck.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Thanks for the replies. The stupid issue at the moment is, that being the most expensive blade that I've ever purchased, giving up on it so soon would make me feel like a complete fool.
The fact that the FH is actually quite good gives me hope that the BH can be where I want it, just not with the current rubber.

What I am looking at right now is:

- XIOM Musa
- Palio CJ8000 Biotech
- Friendship 729 FX Super soft
- Mark V 30 deg

You probably would've been better off with putting faster rubbers on your N-10, if speed is truly an issue (and that's a big 'if').

N-10 was my first blade and I currently have Evolution MX-P on it, which I find quite fast (I don't play with it much, though, after switching to defense). I probably won't be able to loop with OFF+ blade - and most folks here would favor ability to generate spin on FH as more important, compared to pure speed of smashes.

_________________
USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

If you want a faster blade, get a N11. If you want a blade with more control, get a M8. The N11 will cost you $11 including shipping, the M8 will cost you $8 including shipping. Get both and it'll cost you about $19 including shipping (click below):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Galaxy- ... 55707.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Origina ... 53294.html

(Oh nuts.. forgot about the N11s problem.. )

As for the rubber - Any of the ones you mentioned will work, won't make much of a difference except to your wallet. Though I suggest NOT getting the CJ8000, for reasons that are not related to playing qualities but are related to the ease of getting it properly on your blade. Many others will work as well, here's something I suggest:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2x-Gala ... 53505.html

(Or get this and be done with it...)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Sh ... 20589.html

As for your Donic Super Devil blade? Sell it to one of your friends (the one who beats you all the time.. )

Iskandar

What I miss in the first post is information on how long he's trying to plat with the new combination already.

My guess is he's not using the full potential of the Hurricane yet and only plays quite soft with this blade just noticing the difference in catapult - not speed - of these 2 different rubbers. Hitting harder would result into a more similar behaviour of the Hurricane compared to the Rising Dragon, I guess, and if proven correct it's definitely the blade beeing the wrong choice here - unless he learns how to handle it.

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Red is blogging here >> http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=30522

???

Imho, the problem is the blade.

N 10 is a small Defplay style blade, slow and medium hardness, and

Black Devil is pure no nonsense Driver blade, fast and hard blade.

You technically switching to the worst kind of blade for brush looping.

I suggest to go back to N 10, or try Galaxy MC2, fast but soft blade, for looping oriented game.

For throw angle, just think that as how much adjustment of blade angle for now,

Higher throw angle means close the blade angle more for looping the incoming topspin ball.

Summon YodaTT for better explanation of throw angle.

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

Again, thank you all for your replies.

I've tired the combination one time only and I am going to try it again today but as it seems, the blade might end up on eBay after all.

Yes, analysing everything again it surely looks like changing the rubbers on the N10 would've been a much smarter move...

I've tried his bat before and I've always liked it, this is why I got the blade but now that I own it - everything seems quite different.

Anyhow, I'll give it some more time and if nothing changes, and I can't learn how to control it - I'll sell it.

Thank you all for trying to help someone who is obviously lost and made an impulsive purchase.

P.S.
This is the blade DONIC Waldner Black Devil Carbon Balsa

A fool is not someone that purchased unsuitable equipment, we all do that. A fool is someone who keeps using it knowing it's hindering their game.

Bite the bullet, sell on eBay and get something else. No real damage.

Sent from my SM-T210 using Tapatalk

_________________
Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

Looking at it from that point, I can't help but agree. Very well said.

Thank you!

Ok, take two...
I just came back from my 2nd session with the bat. This time it was much, much better. My FH loop was just incredible, probably better than it has ever been with any other combination. The BH was much better than before.

I figured out that I just need to hit the ball a bit later and lower with less power and force than before (like it is not logical). My BH loop is a bit weak and I really need to work on it but I was able to hit the table much more consistently.

I may try another rubber on it just in case, but the blade is a keeper.

Thanks to everyone!

Looks like he went for option 3..

Iskandar