OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hello everyone.

Does anybody have any experience with this rubber? How does it compare to regular H3? How does it react to boosting?

Haven't actually been able to find any decent piece of info on this "new" rubber. The ad text says it is supposed to be faster than the original version.

BTW, it's less than $8 shipped currently which is suspicious, but on the other hand Yinhe Mercury II is a decent rubber at an even lower price. Overall, this one could be a steal if it had #20 sponge.

It is a less spinny and less tacky option for H3, and lean more to chopper rubber.

Tried both H3 and PF4 2016 in red

PF4 is OLD. As in ancient.

al_111 wrote:

It is a less spinny and less tacky option for H3, and lean more to chopper rubber.

Tried both H3 and PF4 2016 in red.

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

I played with this when I was 9 years old!

moming wrote:

I played with this when I was 9 years old!

And now you are 10? Sorry, but I wasted my time clicking to check this notification. If the intention is to say PF4 is not worth using.... then...

The fact is that the newest fandango equipment means nothing to 99% of the TT players.

Dignics 09c means you have $$$ and that's it. And I tried it when I was in my 40s. So?

I see a lot of players (and I am not immune to this) use equipment that does not bring benefits.

Hurricane 3 and 2 were both out when I started playing table tennis but I thought it was terrible to use. I used tenergy 05 on high end carbon hinoki blades for speed and spin that I just couldn't get right otherwise. And I spent a lot of $$$ to find the right combination.

---

The only thing I didn't use once I got seriously into playing is an all-round wood blade that is probably designed before most of us were born. And I am only now finally understanding and being rewarded with my dedication to Chinese rubbers. There is only so much you can improve on equipment depending on the ITTF rules.

Rant over, hope I added something to the post.

Author:	al_111 [ 14 Jul 2017, 21:39 ]
Post subject:	DHS PF4 New
Hello everyone. Does anybody have any experience with this rubber? How does it compare to regular H3? How does it react to boosting? Haven't actually been able to find any decent piece of info on this "new" rubber. The ad text says it is supposed to be faster than the original version. BTW, it's less than $8 shipped currently which is suspicious, but on the other hand Yinhe Mercury II is a decent rubber at an even lower price. Overall, this one could be a steal if it had #20 sponge.

Author:	BeGo [ 15 Jul 2017, 06:48 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
al_111 wrote: Hello everyone. Does anybody have any experience with this rubber? How does it compare to regular H3? How does it react to boosting? Haven't actually been able to find any decent piece of info on this "new" rubber. The ad text says it is supposed to be faster than the original version. BTW, it's less than $8 shipped currently which is suspicious, but on the other hand Yinhe Mercury II is a decent rubber at an even lower price. Overall, this one could be a steal if it had #20 sponge. It is a less spinny and less tacky option for H3, and lean more to chopper rubber. Tried both H3 and PF4 2016 in red. Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

Author:	al_111 [ 15 Jul 2017, 14:12 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
BeGo wrote: It is a less spinny and less tacky option for H3, and lean more to chopper rubber. Tried both H3 and PF4 2016 in red Thanks! Do you remember if the one you have tried was boosted or as-is?

Author:	iskandar taib [ 15 Jul 2017, 16:55 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
PF4 is OLD. As in ancient. It was the second Chinese rubber to appear in the US. The first was the original purple 729 I had a sheet of PF4 in the early 80s - don't remember very much other than the topsheet came loose. Hopefully QC is better today than it was back then. Interesting that they snipped off the corners. Eight bucks seems about right.. Iskandar

Author:	al_111 [ 15 Jul 2017, 18:02 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
iskandar taib wrote: PF4 is OLD. As in ancient. This one is called PF4 New. As in "new sponge-new" Hence the interest.

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DHS PF4 New https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=31582	Page 1 of 2

Author:	BeGo [ 15 Jul 2017, 21:11 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
BeGo wrote: al_111 wrote: Hello everyone. Does anybody have any experience with this rubber? How does it compare to regular H3? How does it react to boosting? Haven't actually been able to find any decent piece of info on this "new" rubber. The ad text says it is supposed to be faster than the original version. BTW, it's less than $8 shipped currently which is suspicious, but on the other hand Yinhe Mercury II is a decent rubber at an even lower price. Overall, this one could be a steal if it had #20 sponge. It is a less spinny and less tacky option for H3, and lean more to chopper rubber. Tried both H3 and PF4 2016 in red. Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk As is. I am not boosting. I am using KKK glue Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

Author:	iskandar taib [ 18 Jul 2017, 14:52 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
I suspect it's the same old topsheet, different sponge. They didn't change the ID strip, did they? Common trick.. Check out Kokutaku 868 sometime, or Palio CJ8000. Even KTL Pro XP and XT. Iskandar

Author:	al_111 [ 19 Jul 2017, 06:35 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
@Iskandar Yes, they're definitely presenting it as a new rubber to the market and as the same old one - to the ITTF Still, having to leave an old ID strip has never stopped Chinese manufacturers from changing the topsheet formula if they wanted I already have a sheet of black thick going my way, will probably make a short review.

Author:	so_devo [ 19 Jul 2017, 08:27 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
I also used pf4 in the 80s. Rock hard in 2mm. Spinny allround rubber. Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

Author:	iskandar taib [ 19 Jul 2017, 12:37 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
I'm beginning to think that rubber compound and degree of vulcanization are not things that ITTF considers as characteristics of the sample topsheets that are submitted as part of the certification process. What they probably care about (and which can be easily measured, no need for expensive chemical characterization) are things like the ID strip, pips dimensions and profile, arrangement and density. As long as topsheets on the market are identical in these ways to the submitted samples, that's OK. Whether they're softer or harder, or tacky or not doesn't matter. In fact, I think tackiness is actually some sort of glue applied to topsheets after they come out of the mold, by way of a transfer film (that sheet of plastic that you peel off a new sheet of rubber before you can play with it). There are probably different formulations of these glues for different levels of tack. I see quite a few rubbers that come in both tacky and non tacky versions - Sanwei A+, Kokutaku 868, Yinhe Sun and Moon (Pro vs. Usual). Both versions (or all three versions, in the case of 868) have the same nominal topsheet, of which there is only one entry in the LARC. I think only the 999s actually use a different (probably older) technology that relies on very unvulcanized topsheets rather than tack-glue - they feel different compared to others, and the "protective film" is quite different, too, being very thick. Iskandar

Author:	boz [ 16 Sep 2022, 11:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
Any updates on the new batch of PF4? I am eagerly waiting for a $12 sheet from Ali... I am particularly interested in the pip design compared to H3 H2 or H8. This is all I can find: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H7f4d7faedff ... .jpg_.webp

Author:	moming [ 16 Sep 2022, 15:18 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
I played with this when I was 9 years old!

Author:	boz [ 16 Sep 2022, 21:38 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
moming wrote: I played with this when I was 9 years old! And now you are 10? Sorry, but I wasted my time clicking to check this notification. If the intention is to say PF4 is not worth using.... then... The fact is that the newest fandango equipment means nothing to 99% of the TT players. Dignics 09c means you have $$$ and that's it. And I tried it when I was in my 40s. So? I see a lot of players (and I am not immune to this) use equipment that does not bring benefits. Hurricane 3 and 2 were both out when I started playing table tennis but I thought it was terrible to use. I used tenergy 05 on high end carbon hinoki blades for speed and spin that I just couldn't get right otherwise. And I spent a lot of $$$ to find the right combination. --- The only thing I didn't use once I got seriously into playing is an all-round wood blade that is probably designed before most of us were born. And I am only now finally understanding and being rewarded with my dedication to Chinese rubbers. There is only so much you can improve on equipment depending on the ITTF rules. Rant over, hope I added something to the post.

Author:	moming [ 17 Sep 2022, 02:56 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
boz wrote: moming wrote: I played with this when I was 9 years old! And now you are 10? Sorry, but I wasted my time clicking to check this notification. If the intention is to say PF4 is not worth using.... then... The fact is that the newest fandango equipment means nothing to 99% of the TT players. Dignics 09c means you have $$$ and that's it. And I tried it when I was in my 40s. So? I see a lot of players (and I am not immune to this) use equipment that does not bring benefits. Hurricane 3 and 2 were both out when I started playing table tennis but I thought it was terrible to use. I used tenergy 05 on high end carbon hinoki blades for speed and spin that I just couldn't get right otherwise. And I spent a lot of $$$ to find the right combination. --- The only thing I didn't use once I got seriously into playing is an all-round wood blade that is probably designed before most of us were born. And I am only now finally understanding and being rewarded with my dedication to Chinese rubbers. There is only so much you can improve on equipment depending on the ITTF rules. Rant over, hope I added something to the post. Jumpy, aren't we? The original PF4 came out in the late 70s, I remember having a poster with Guo Yuehua playing with it, (in fact he was using 729 in tournaments, but was a PF4 sponsored player, logos were not required back then, but anyway) And I liked it back then, it was a great rubber back in the day. I am sure this is an updated version, no idea how it plays, and I by no means am trying to brush it off as rubbish, don't get so jumpy I won't make comments on stuff I haven't tried. And even if I tried it and hated it, I wouldn't say it is not worth using. I might say it is not worth me using it, but that's just my personal taste, different people like different things. And if DHS would want to keep this very old name PF4, that was one of the first "professional" level inverted rubbers they sold to the open market, it must have some resemblance to the original. Which, if I have to guess will be very tacky, I remember it was so sticky that I have the ball stuck to the PF4, ball facing the ground, and I can walk around the table 3 times, the ball wouldn't drop. And very good control. Of course, I have no idea how this new one plays. If you get one I would be interested to see a review.

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Author:	boz [ 17 Sep 2022, 08:33 ]
Post subject:	Re: DHS PF4 New
Exclamations '!' make me jumpy. Good thing you didn't write it in capital letters. The only thing I 'worry' about is when the top sheet and sponge were manufactured. I have some unused cheap products from a decade ago that were probably produced a decade before that. After opening them recently, the sponges did not have the usual flexibility evenly throughout... Kind of like a kink in cardboard and the top sheets seemed to be a bit dry. For me, they are not worth using at all, but I might stick them on a blade for my kid who is very much a beginner. I use Chinese rubber for the tackiness and price. My intuition also tells me that the sponges have improved since I trialed Chinese over 15 years ago. I only know back then one chopper friend that had PF4 on a blade and could hold the ball indefinitely. As long as the rubber is DHS standard of H2 H3 H8 for the long-lasting tack and newer flexible sponges $12 delivered is a no-brainer. --- I doubt there is much to say/be surprising to comment on with the 'new' PF4 apart from whether they are a fresh batch. Speed Spin ratios (depend on which shot) on a sliding scale of control in various departments are pretty guessable... If all of them are on the commercial orange sponge at 39* boosted in the same colour: 'Control' and cheap at one end ------- dynamic at the other end. Expense is more complicated since the popularity of H3. H9 for now is stupidly priced with pretty colours... PF4 h2 h3 h8 h9 --- What would be interesting is to know whether say PF4, H8 or H9 have ever been put on a 'national blue sponge' for the experts to trial. cheers.