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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 07:46 
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Hello everyone, I'm looking for advices about a backhand rubber. I'm not a new player, but I've started re-learning the strokes recently since I never had a real coach before, even if I've played for years.

Right now I'm using something that was meant to be an ALL+ bat:

-Tibhar Icon (recently "downgraded" from a yoola flame fast because too fast for me to learn properly)
-Yinhe Moon on forehand
-Gewo Proton Neo 375 on backhand

Now: I've recently switched the Proton neo on my forehand because it's a medium/soft rubber and I find it easier to topspin with it, expecially against an heavy backspin ball and I'm quite satisfied. My serve had quite a benefit from it as well.

The issue is that I don't know what to use on my backhand. To just switch the Moon on the BH seems like a bad idea to me. I just don't feel it, it seems too "hard" (as a surface) to work on my backhand topspins, expecially against backspin. Also my normal backspin got shaky and I don't really like the serves. What I enjoyed a lot about this rubber was (is) the great control on flat strokes, but right now I'm trying to get better at spinning the ball.

To summarize: I'm a player still developing some of the basics strokes. I wouldn't want something that punishes me too much for my errors. My next goal is to become more familair with spin and to be able not just to keep adding backspin to the ball, but also to open the exchange and perform a good BH topspin when I want to. Also I like to alternate serves with BH and FH, and, when playing BH I like to put a good backspin on the ball and place it where I want. Which rubber could I consider? Sadly I'm not really able to choose by myself.

Thank you very much, any advice is welcomed.


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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 07:53 
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Blade: S&T Black & White
FH: Armstrong SH-I 1.8
BH: S&T Hellfire X OX
I generally suggest the same rubber on both sides for developing players.

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 07:57 
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Dusty054 wrote:
I generally suggest the same rubber on both sides for developing players.



and, truth be told, I'm very tempted to buy another proton neo and be done with it. In the end I've been using it for months on the BH before switching it to FH.
The only reason I had doubts about this is because I keep reading that it's a good thing to have different rubbers, because the strokes are different. But yeah, I'm a beginner and I'm very tempted to just focus on developing everything, see what I can do better and from that point differentiate the rubbers.


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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2018, 11:33 
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Blade: S&T Black & White
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Mattz wrote:
But yeah, I'm a beginner and I'm very tempted to just focus on developing everything, see what I can do better and from that point differentiate the rubbers.


That’s the right approach, in my view. Bear in mind that it’s possible that a new rubber might play a bit different to the old one, depending on how worn the old one is. They don’t last forever. But I think it’s the best option, other than buying two new rubbers.

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PostPosted: 31 Aug 2018, 03:40 
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I agree with Dusty, having the same thing on the opposite side would make sense while you are developing your feel and touch for new strokes. No need to complicate things when you are already familiar with this particular rubber. I wouldn't worry about anything else unless your coach recommends something new later on. As he said if your old sheet is worn, consider replacing both sheets with new sheets so you have a good foundation to start with.

Good luck, and enjoy your journey into table tennis. Keep us informed on your progress occasionally.

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PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 02:59 
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On the other hand, if you don't twiddle (why would you twiddle? :lol: ), having different rubbers on each side shouldn't HURT your stroke development. Nor would it necessarily help, but you get the point...

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018, 03:44 
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I think there is something to be said for a heightened sense of proprioception of what you are doing stroke-wise when you have the same rubber on both sides. In occupational therapy, there is a consistent practice of making sure there is parallel application of equipment just for that reason with stroke and brain injured patients.

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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2018, 15:06 
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Hi,

Here's my twisted 2 cents -

I'd recommend Chinese tacky rubbers, especially if you're developing stroke technique... tacky rubbers demand perfect technique ...


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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2018, 01:11 
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They do? :lol: To do what?

I think you're referring to getting the most speed and spin out of loops - at least with H3 and its cousins you have to put a lot of racket speed into the stroke to get the most out of it compared to the "gimpy" strokes that work with Tensors and the ilk. However, I think that's oversimplifying it a little. Yes, this matters to upper level players. For us less-exalted types? We can get plenty of "performance" out of cheap, tacky Chinese rubbers, "performance" being a relative term, of course.. :lol: At least, we can get the same performance out of the cheap Chinese tacky rubbers as we can out of expensive Tensors (or so has been my experience). A lot of Tensors and similar rubbers come with dire warnings - for instance, to use Evolution MX-P, you supposedly have to be a top class player, if you're not, you can't use it. Poppycock. I found it pretty darned easy to use. And I'm no 1500 player.. :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2018, 17:01 
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iskandar taib wrote:
I think you're referring to getting the most speed and spin out of loops


No, I don't mean, in terms of spin and speed...

Here's what I feel, based on my experience with a few Chinese Tacky rubbers (especially ones by 729, Globe, and then DHS), especially, ones from the pre-40mm and plastic ball era...

A lot of the tradition chinese tacky rubbers have a low-throw, are spin-sensitive, tend to be hard'ish, the ball does not sink in much, are on the heavier side...Hence, the combination of these factors, makes these rubbers, sort-of, less forgiving, and more demanding (compared to beginner-level Euro/Jap rubbers) , from a technique aspect. Take looping, for instance - Since the ball does not sink into the rubber as much (compared to Euro/Jap style rubbers), and since the rubbers tend to have a low-throw, a player, may be forced to loop with a proper brushing action...and if the brushing action is proper, I feel, the quality of the loop is better, generally speaking.... Where I am, most coaches, emphasize of proper brushing action, for loops...

Another advantage of using tacky rubbers, for beginners, is service receive .. Since they tend to be sensitive to spin, receiving serves requires more technique. This same spin-sensitivity, make it harder to lift-backpsin, without proper technique... These rubbers, also tend to be rather spinny..

Chinese rubbers are also recommended for learning/improving/playing a short-game...

So, to me, the very fact that these rubbers can be rather un-forgiving, if the technique is not correct, makes them a good choice, for someone still learning the ropes..

I'm not saying that it's impossible to learn with Euro/Jap rubbers... The above is just based on my personal experience...


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2019, 21:06 
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ootbs wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
I think you're referring to getting the most speed and spin out of loops


No, I don't mean, in terms of spin and speed...

Here's what I feel, based on my experience with a few Chinese Tacky rubbers (especially ones by 729, Globe, and then DHS), especially, ones from the pre-40mm and plastic ball era...

A lot of the tradition chinese tacky rubbers have a low-throw, are spin-sensitive, tend to be hard'ish, the ball does not sink in much, are on the heavier side...Hence, the combination of these factors, makes these rubbers, sort-of, less forgiving, and more demanding (compared to beginner-level Euro/Jap rubbers) , from a technique aspect. Take looping, for instance - Since the ball does not sink into the rubber as much (compared to Euro/Jap style rubbers), and since the rubbers tend to have a low-throw, a player, may be forced to loop with a proper brushing action...and if the brushing action is proper, I feel, the quality of the loop is better, generally speaking.... Where I am, most coaches, emphasize of proper brushing action, for loops...

Another advantage of using tacky rubbers, for beginners, is service receive .. Since they tend to be sensitive to spin, receiving serves requires more technique. This same spin-sensitivity, make it harder to lift-backpsin, without proper technique... These rubbers, also tend to be rather spinny..

Chinese rubbers are also recommended for learning/improving/playing a short-game...

So, to me, the very fact that these rubbers can be rather un-forgiving, if the technique is not correct, makes them a good choice, for someone still learning the ropes..

I'm not saying that it's impossible to learn with Euro/Jap rubbers... The above is just based on my personal experience...



I support 100% what is said above. Chinese hard or med/hard tacky rubbers are more difficult to play since these are less forgiving. Using them for some time have a positive effect on strokes, its like polishing your technique. This is well known and verified fact. So you will benefit if you use rubbers like 729-08 ES (H47) or Hurricane III H39 on forehand for long enough.

However, based on my personal experience it was not the case with backhand! I was doing lots of mistakes with BH due to incorrect strokes. My attempts to lift the ball or attack backspin serves were not working well. Hard tacky rubbers are not forgiving at all and I had lots of problems on BH. Then I followed the advice from experienced player and it helped me. So the advice was to go two steps softer and instead of tacky Chinese get some catapult style Jap rubber on BH. I was not thinking for too long. Just put Palio CJ8000 2.2mm H40-42 (not a tensor) for $8 AUD and played with it for one month.

What happened during 1 month - I started lifting backspin balls relatively easy but more important - consistently (even though the cheapo rubber itself was far from consistent). It was easy to play with that rubber. I gained confidence in attacking spinny serves using BH! Also learned to launching BH attack from mid distance right in the middle of a rally where I was pushed away from the table by attacking player. I never could attack like that using med/hard BH rubbers. I was only passively defending. So the use of soft, springy non tacky rubber worked like enabler for my BH.

But I knew that using it for longer period would NOT be good, cause this rubber allows me to do mistakes and also it's springiness compensates for weak strokes. So after 1 month I replaced it with tacky Chinese (Sanwei Target National) which is medium hard. Right after switch it became somewhat harder to play again but this time I could manage it.

Now my BH is my dominant side. Most of killer shots are from BH attack! So, some times it worth to listen to experienced players even though the mechanics behind advice might not be immediately obvious :)


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PostPosted: 27 Mar 2019, 23:42 
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I preferred a softer rubber to give myself more time on the ball. An ESN softer rubber like donic bluefire m3 is not bad. It isn't too soft.


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