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Thinking of trying new FH rubber instead of H3 Neo
https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=33693		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Dave T [ 03 Dec 2018, 03:34 ]
Post subject:  Thinking of trying new FH rubber instead of H3 Neo
Let me preface this by saying that I don't know a whole lot about rubbers, and frankly have a hard time telling the difference. But I have a lot of blades, and like to experiment.

So I am currently using a Viscaria blade, with H3 Neo Prov on my FH, and Tenergy 05FX on my BH. I boosted the Hurricane rubber with Falco Tempo Booster, I'm not sure if I'd know the difference though. I got the blade and did the boosting based on a recommendation from a friend, and my coach helped me pick the rubbers. I'm what I guess you'd call an advanced beginner. I have decent fundamental strokes, from lots of practice on my robot and with my coach. But I have a hard time hitting winners when I play, and my game too often devolves into patty-cake ping pong.

Anyway, from reading stuff on the web, my understanding of the Hurricane rubber is that it has a tacky topsheet and a relatively hard sponge. The tacky topsheet lets you have high spin on softer shots, as when serving. I'm not sure of the benefit of the harder sponge. I'm thinking of trying a rubber with a tacky topsheet but a softer sponge. This would give me more power, due to rebound effect, and would let me "lift" the ball a bit more when looping far from the table. Correct?

When I try hitting my BH tenergy rubber on my forehand, I can't really tell much difference from the Hurricane rubber, although I'm sure it's there. The balls feel a bit different, but the results look the same. However, it seems that the Tenergy shots are maybe harder to return, based on when I try it on my forehand when rallying with people...

So, any advice on an alternative to the H3? And what is the downside of using a softer springier sponge coupled with a tacky topsheet, vs the harder sponge with the H3? That's something I don't understand.

Thanks.

- Dave
Author:  iskandar taib [ 03 Dec 2018, 16:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinking of trying new FH rubber instead of H3 Neo
Ah... I'm like that, too. I can have a Chinese sheet on one side of a blade and a Tensor on the other side and I can't really tell the difference. And I suspect there are more of us than people are willing to admit.. :lol: If you read my posts, I've come to the conclusion that different rubbers mean a lot less than a lot of people make them out to mean. At least, when you're comparing inverted sandwich rubbers with max sponge. (Blades are a different matter - I CAN feel the difference between blades, it makes a huge difference for me.)

The harder sponge is supposedly better for very hard hits and loops. The sponge won't bottom out as easily, though of course most people can't loop like Ma Long. As far as Chinese rubber with a softer sponge.. Hmm... Maybe Tin Arc? Though it's actually more like a Japanese/European rubber - it's meant to be functionally similar to the Tenergy on the backhand. Or perhaps the softer versions of Palio CJ8000. Most of the cheap Chinese sheets have pretty hard sponges. The scuttlebutt about H3 is that it's actually pretty slow - too slow for a lot of people, because you need to be able to hit the ball pretty hard before you make decent speed with it. The top Chinese players use it because you get very good control over the table with soft shots, while really hard shots go really fast. And they can hit and loop pretty hard compared to most of us.

Iskandar
Author:  ootbs [ 03 Dec 2018, 18:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinking of trying new FH rubber instead of H3 Neo
iskandar taib wrote:

As far as Chinese rubber with a softer sponge.. Hmm... Maybe Tin Arc? Though it's actually more like a Japanese/European rubber - it's meant to be functionally similar to the Tenergy on the backhand. Or perhaps the softer versions of Palio CJ8000.
Iskandar


Also, look @ the AK-47 Blue or Yellow, for softer Chinese rubbers.... Although, I'm not sure how they compare to the T05... To me, the Blue version is comparable to the Xiom Vega Europe. ..


I used the H3 Neo for several months, and quite liked it, once I got the hang of it... The only reason I moved away from it, was that I was forced to switch to a lighter setup, due to issues with my shoulder and elbow.
Author:  darucla [ 04 Dec 2018, 03:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinking of trying new FH rubber instead of H3 Neo
I've still found no reason to reverse my quite high opinion of Loki GTX Pro. No need for boosting, and it has some tack and some speed (I hesitate to say catapult). I am currently playing at my best with this on both sides (I mean the best I have ever played, but this may not be entirely due to the rubber :lol: ).
Author:  Dave T [ 04 Dec 2018, 03:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinking of trying new FH rubber instead of H3 Neo
Thanks for the replies everyone! I have some followup questions.

If the harder sponge is to prevent bottoming out, why not use a thicker sponge? And it sure feels like I'm bottoming out when I hit a hard shot with the H3.

Iskander - you said the Loki has "some tack". Isn't that an issue for serving? I'm thinking I will always want a lot of tack, to get max spin on spinny serves.
Author:  darucla [ 04 Dec 2018, 03:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinking of trying new FH rubber instead of H3 Neo
Dave T wrote:

Iskander - you said the Loki has "some tack". Isn't that an issue for serving? I'm thinking I will always want a lot of tack, to get max spin on spinny serves.

I am not Iskandar, but I think that is addressed to me.

The only answer I can give you is that I can do anything with the Loki that I can with the HS National Blue Sponge. 4 fold price difference incidentally.

Tack is not necessary to produce spin. Ask anyone who has played against Timo Boll, who uses T05.
Author:  Dave T [ 04 Dec 2018, 04:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinking of trying new FH rubber instead of H3 Neo
Yes, sorry. That was addressed to you. So HS national is H3 National, right? I was actually thinking of getting some of that. My coach has some.

Can you explain how you don’t need tack to maximize spin when serving, when the ball only gets a glancing brush? This is another thing I don’t understand.
Author:  darucla [ 04 Dec 2018, 04:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinking of trying new FH rubber instead of H3 Neo
You need grip. H3 supplements the grip with tackiness, but many, actually most, rubbers do not. Try rubbing a ball across the rubber, and there should be some resistance due to friction, which relates to grip. People on the forums talk about mechanical grip and tacky grip (I think). The fact is, H3 loses tackiness as time goes on. It can be maintained, but not forever. But it is still usable way after it loses the ability to pick up the ball through stickiness. What is a problem is the amount of dust it picks up during a game, which is why you see the Chinese pros constantly breathing on the rubber and then wiping their hands across it.

Yeah HS was a typo for H3. Far be it from me to say don't go to H3 National Blue Sponge, but it is a lot of money. I bought my last sheets from Bribart UK. It is a great rubber, but requires a lot of effort to use properly.

As I am not getting any younger, I have been looking for something similar (ie the same shot produces a similar result) that does not require so much effort, and have been very pleasantly surprised by the Loki GTX. It is available from Amazon UK now (!), so I just got some from there. £19 a sheet.
Author:  ziv [ 04 Dec 2018, 04:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinking of trying new FH rubber instead of H3 Neo
darucla, what about H8 that is listed as your primary FH rubber - can you compare it to H3 (Neo)?
Author:  darucla [ 04 Dec 2018, 20:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Thinking of trying new FH rubber instead of H3 Neo
That signature is a little out of date. Yes i still have the HL 3 with H8 and MX-P. but I haven't used it for a long time. I did try H3 on the HL 3, but I found it not so good. But this was on that specific blade.

My current blade is the 301 with GTX Pro on both sides, unless I am feeling strong, and then I will use the 301 with H3 Nat and GTX Pro. I switched to the 301 after breaking my playing wrist about 18 months ago. I wanted something that would be a little gentler on me physically, so that I didn't have to hit so hard, thus protecting the wrist, which still feels a little fragile. But I found the 301 to be a better fit for me in the long term; it really is a great blade.

H8 is probably a better rubber out of the box than standard H3 commercial, but I prefer the H3 National otherwise (at the price, I would hope so!). H8 doesn't have the extremely dead feel that new H3 can have. But it is still a Hurricane family rubber, just with a little extra zing. I feel it is a better choice for those new to Chinese hard and tacky rubber, perhaps coming from Euro/Japanese rubbers. A little higher throw, a little extra speed. Only 2 variations: Hard and Mid-Hard. No provincial, national, blue sponge, red sponge, Neo etc. I should stress that any impressions of the rubber may be unique to the reviewer, in this case me. You may have a totally different reaction to them.

You can read professional reviews of the Hurricane rubber on the TT11 site.
http://blog.tabletennis11.com/dhs-hurri ... -40-degree
http://blog.tabletennis11.com/dhs-hurri ... ial-review

I have found that all of the Hurricane rubbers need some running in time. Boosting may speed that up. The Loki is much more ready to go, although users of Tenergy/Tensor rubbers might still find it a little slow initially: it depends on what you are used to.
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