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 Post subject: Re: Gambler Rubbers
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 02:37 
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Here's an interesting item:

https://www.gamblertt.com/show-all-rubb ... p-351.html

Image

I got confirmation - for $10 (or $12) you get TWO sheets - it comes without the wrapping, just like Chinese "training rubber". And at these prices, they're competitive price-wise with the likes of Batwings, Yinhe 9000, Kokutaku 868, etc. and you can afford to buy a stack of sheets for your club (or for a rebound board.. :lol: ). I'll bet QC is better, too. Shipping in the US is $1 a package if you only order rubber (I assume this is true even if your order 20 sheets). These are sheets which are used on their pre-made racket line, and they sell them like this because people have been asking for replacement sheets. If I were in the US I'd order some. What rubbers can you get? Aces, Shadow, Wraith and Zero (the latter two are $12 a pair of sheets). With the standard sponges, I'd assume, and max sponge thickness only (ask - you probably don't want to be stuck with several sheets of 1.5mm..). Aces is super-tacky, Shadow and Wraith are tacky, Zero is non-tacky. Aces looks like the spinny-as-heck serve rubber (maybe like Reactor Corbor, which is also ultra-sticky to begin with), Shadow would be for allround control, Wraith for aggressive over the table, Aces for looping away from the table.

I like the way the stacks of rubber are floating in mid-air.. :lol:

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Gambler Rubbers
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 05:20 
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Blade: Xiom Hayabusa Z+ FL
FH: Victas V-15 Stiff Bl Max
BH: Keiler Red 1.8 mm
iskandar taib wrote:
I'd trust Paddle Palace more than I'd trust.. what's it called now.. Revspin? At least it's within one company and the same few people are involved.

Rating rubbers will ALWAYS be subjective. There's no way around it, opinion and feel are always involved, one person's opinion will differ from someone else's, especially when differences are miniscule and subtle, so you need more than one person involved. I'll bet Butterfly and ESN have actual calibrated methods involving instruments for measuring things such as "spin" and "speed", maybe even "catapult" (whatever that is..) but their R&D will always involve experienced players evaluating intangible stuff like "control" and "feel". In the end, the best test is to buy one yourself and see if you like it (much less painful with cheap sheets). And even then, it might take you a while to figure out if you really do like something better than something else... :lol:

Iskandar


Don't forget to add to that the fact that some of the rubber need a break-in period before it reaches it's peak performance, and this gets complicated in a hurry. Some players automatically boost before even trying a new sheet out. Some use rubber cement still, while others only use WBG. Some put a stack of books on a newly glued blade or put it in a press, and then some just slap it on and go play. :headbang:

There is a reason no one can agree on what the fastest, most spinney, best rubber is. And even if they do agree for a minute, something new and shinny will come out soon to upset the whole chart. :rofl:

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Xiom Hayabusa Z+; Victas V-15 Stiff (Black) Max; Explosion (Red) 1.8 mm, or Do Knuckle (Red) 1.5 mm


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 Post subject: Re: Gambler Rubbers
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 10:17 
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I think part of the reason why it's difficult is that the differences between rubbers is miniscule a lot of the time. For instance, all the German sheets are made by one company in one factory, no matter what brand it's sold under. Likewise there's a similar factory in Japan, and in China there's maybe 3 or 4 that OEM for a lot of others. So in the end it doesn't matter anywhere near as much as us hobbyists would like to think it does.. :lol: Brett said it best - apparently to pros there's only 3 types of rubber - Tenergy, European and Chinese.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Gambler Rubbers
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 10:48 
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iskandar taib wrote:
I think part of the reason why it's difficult is that the differences between rubbers is miniscule a lot of the time. For instance, all the German sheets are made by one company in one factory, no matter what brand it's sold under. Likewise there's a similar factory in Japan, and in China there's maybe 3 or 4 that OEM for a lot of others. So in the end it doesn't matter anywhere near as much as us hobbyists would like to think it does.. :lol: Brett said it best - apparently to pros there's only 3 types of rubber - Tenergy, European and Chinese.

Iskandar

There could be only 3 types of rubber (if we want to ignore antis and various types of pips which are very different), but the rubbers within the same type aren't all the same.
For example, Tenergy pros do not all use 05 on both sides. Some use FX, some use 64 or 80 or whatever other models there are. Some even use Dignics.
Similarly, Tibhar sponsored pros not all use MX-P. Some use FX-P or MX-S. This means they can not only tell the difference between ESN rubbers, but even between the rubbers within the same product line. And I believe it is possible to see that difference for us mere mortals, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Gambler Rubbers
PostPosted: 12 Jul 2019, 12:35 
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Well, yeah, we were discussing conventional inverted rubbers only when Brett made the comment. It's worth looking back at those posts - it's in that gigantic thread about how to do strokes properly. Maybe a year back.. There was quite a bit of analysis - apparently there is some reason why more pros aren't using Tensors over Tenergy - there's some sort of slippage problem. And Chinese rubbers have some sort of problem that crops up occasionally when it comes to killing high lobs (supposedly why Chinese players flip the bat around when killing high lobs). Brett almost never discusses equipment, which makes this rather notable.

I'm sure there are differences within the types, in fact some are rather marked. If there weren't we would have a lot to talk about. :lol: However when it comes to pros they'll tend to pick from one or two within the group (usually the hardest and spinniest). It's also interesting how many pros use rubbers other than what their sponsors sell - I think Harimoto is sponsored by Victas (at least, he wears shirts with Victas on them) but uses Tenergy. Xu Xin is sponsored by Stiga but uses H3 and Tenergy. Let's put it this way - supposing Tenergy 05 didn't exist. Would that really effect anything? Everyone would probably just use Tenergy 64 instead, games would still look the same, everyone would still be using the same strokes, the same people would be at the top. Yes, there's a difference between Tenergy 05 and 64, but I think anyone who uses 05 could just as well use 64 to the same effect if they weren't allowed to use 05.

Iskandar


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 Post subject: Re: Gambler Rubbers
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2019, 02:47 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Well, yeah, we were discussing conventional inverted rubbers only when Brett made the comment. It's worth looking back at those posts - it's in that gigantic thread about how to do strokes properly. Maybe a year back.. There was quite a bit of analysis - apparently there is some reason why more pros aren't using Tensors over Tenergy - there's some sort of slippage problem. And Chinese rubbers have some sort of problem that crops up occasionally when it comes to killing high lobs (supposedly why Chinese players flip the bat around when killing high lobs). Brett almost never discusses equipment, which makes this rather notable.

I'm sure there are differences within the types, in fact some are rather marked. If there weren't we would have a lot to talk about. :lol: However when it comes to pros they'll tend to pick from one or two within the group (usually the hardest and spinniest). It's also interesting how many pros use rubbers other than what their sponsors sell - I think Harimoto is sponsored by Victas (at least, he wears shirts with Victas on them) but uses Tenergy. Xu Xin is sponsored by Stiga but uses H3 and Tenergy. Let's put it this way - supposing Tenergy 05 didn't exist. Would that really effect anything? Everyone would probably just use Tenergy 64 instead, games would still look the same, everyone would still be using the same strokes, the same people would be at the top. Yes, there's a difference between Tenergy 05 and 64, but I think anyone who uses 05 could just as well use 64 to the same effect if they weren't allowed to use 05.

Iskandar


I agree, for the pros at least. I can play with 3 sheets, look at their technical specs and even if they are very close numerically, I can in many cases tell you how they differ. I can feel the differences, but do they really make any difference in my playing level. I doubt it, most wouldn't even force me to alter my strokes or my style. Donic Bluefire M2, Baracuda, Andro Hexer Grip, and Victas v>15 Stiff all would support my game equally. So would some of the Tenergy's. Would the pro's be able to pick my racket up and use it? Probably they would bottom the rubber out, and say it lacked power, on the other hand I would be less than happy with their hard DHS H3 Neo, since I don't naturally produce that kind of power to be able to penetrate their harder sponge.

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 Post subject: Re: Gambler Rubbers
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 02:47 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Here's an interesting item:

https://www.gamblertt.com/show-all-rubb ... p-351.html

Image

I got confirmation - for $10 (or $12) you get TWO sheets - it comes without the wrapping, just like Chinese "training rubber". And at these prices, they're competitive price-wise with the likes of Batwings, Yinhe 9000, Kokutaku 868, etc. and you can afford to buy a stack of sheets for your club (or for a rebound board.. :lol: ). I'll bet QC is better, too. Shipping in the US is $1 a package if you only order rubber (I assume this is true even if your order 20 sheets). These are sheets which are used on their pre-made racket line, and they sell them like this because people have been asking for replacement sheets. If I were in the US I'd order some. What rubbers can you get? Aces, Shadow, Wraith and Zero (the latter two are $12 a pair of sheets). With the standard sponges, I'd assume, and max sponge thickness only (ask - you probably don't want to be stuck with several sheets of 1.5mm..). Aces is super-tacky, Shadow and Wraith are tacky, Zero is non-tacky. Aces looks like the spinny-as-heck serve rubber (maybe like Reactor Corbor, which is also ultra-sticky to begin with), Shadow would be for allround control, Wraith for aggressive over the table, Aces for looping away from the table.

I like the way the stacks of rubber are floating in mid-air.. :lol:

Iskandar


Oops... Got another message from Gambler. Apparently a misunderstanding. $10 (or $12) is for ONE sheet.

Iskandar


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