OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Alright...you'll have to wait a little Tat. I had the rubber with me yesterday but (miraculously...LOL) you weren't at the club. Today I got my replacement rubber for the bubbled Outlaw from Zeropong (729 Battle) and I'm going to put it on the same blade as the black outlaw to test it and compare both. After that you can have the outlaw.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick with the Mark Vs and the fast European Korbel, but you never know.

That would be a very useful comparison!

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Sorry, when it rains, I never want to drive in the freeway during rush hour. Will definitely going to the club picnic this Saturday at noon.

Ok, done testing the Friendship Battle in various matches today. About the same speed as a Gambler Outlaw...feels softer overall, has a much more pronounced glue effect (and quite loud), very spinny. Overall a great rubber to play with. BUT...and this is a HUGE "but"....the rubber bubbled within less than 2 hours of play. Huge bubble. When I was cutting the rubber to attach it to my bade I noticed that it was very easy to separate the rubber from the sponge (by just pulling a little) with the cut out rubber pieces. I figured that the rubber would bubble easily because of that, but still gave it a chance. Unfortunately I was right. This really sucks...such a good rubber but such a gad glue job and quality control...shame on you Friendship! So disappointed....going to contact Tom at Zeropong and tell him about it.

And Tat...the gambler outlaw is waiting for you in my bag. Although...at its edges the rubber is separating from the sponge, too.

Sounds like Outlaw and Battle may use the same technology, which is not surprising as it all comes form the same place.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Not sure...the glue effect of the Battle is definitely much more pronounced and the sound is loud...with outlaw you barely hear a sound most of the time. Maybe it's the different hardness levels. Although...Battle is not really a soft rubber either. And the way they form bubbles is even different....With Outlaw the pips seem to break in the middle...whereas with Battle the glue job is so bad that the pips just detach from the sponge.

Oh yeah..they both do come with a quite pronounced reverse dome...however the dome on the Battle is even more pronounced.

Here is the picture by the way. The visible bubble is rather large..but there are even larger areas where the topsheet is detaching from the sponge (smack in the middle of racket) but it's not a visible bubble yet (unless you press sideways with your finger).

Thanks for the update topspinschuss! Very useful information, even though some of the news is bad.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

This is very, very surprising. I have tried battle 1 (albeit breifly) and battle 2 (extensively) and outlaw (extensively). While I will agree outlaw seems somewhat fragile, battle is absolutely nothing like it. I think topspinschuss must hit the ball very, very, very hard. Unless there is boosting going on I do not understand this.

He does hit the ball (all heavy top spins) very, very hard, and on the same spot in every stroke.
I once brought in a very small paddles (2" x 3") with glued on spiny rubbers to the club and challenged topspinschuss, this young man can top spin with that little paddle on the first stroke and more. amazing!

There was no tuning involved and I used water based glue (tear mender). If you ever get Battle 1 again try just pulling the topsheet off of the sponge. It happens almost without effort..at least on mine. Battle I is actually *more* fragile than the current Outlaw...and about as fragile as the Outlaw 6 years ago. In any case, ages ago as a teen in Germany I was about probably 2500 level, so my loop can still be at that level (or slightly lower) even if my footwork and consistency put me at around 2200 right now. I started practicing again (and losing weight), though, so hopefully I can at least get over 2300 or possibly 2400+ relatively soon! There is a guy in the club who must be at most 1800...(if that..probably closer to 1700) who also bubbles Outlaw regularly..although it seems to take him much longer to do so (maybe a month and half plus). So, it's not just a problem with people who have hard strokes.

But still...I think it's unacceptable that these rubber makers seem to make rubbers that eventually bubble. If you buy a cheapo Butterfly Flextra rubber (some places sell it for $17) it will practically *never* bubble...no matter how hard you hit it. This is really bad strategy for these rubber makers. You *want* better players to adopt your rubbers so that the lower rated players emulate them. You don't want to just market low-manufacturing quality crap (although still with high-quality playing characteristics) to low level players hoping that their strokes aren't strong enough to expose the low manufacturing quality in your rubbers.

In any case...I got a refund for the Outlaw/Battle I from Tom/Zeropong. His response to the bubbling was similar to his response to the Outlaw over the years:

"I'm sorry that you had that bubble with the new sheet we sent you! We have not encountered any problems with the Battle 1 yet."

I have a feeling that the concerns of relatively higher level players are quietly brushed under the carpet in hopes that the information about the low manufacturing quality does not spread. It's almost like: "It's your fault that you bubbled this rubber because your stroke is too strong/hard." The problem is that it eventually does...because I can guarantee you that most people who can actually loop (and I mean any loop) *will* bubble the Battle I (or the Outlaw) given how badly glued the topsheet was to the sponge. I may actually demonstrate that with a video of me easily pulling off the topsheet from the sponge one of these days. In any case..Mark V it is then.

The only other thing I wonder about is the shipping from the US to I presume Australia and if the package was in really cold or hot environmental conditions. The only time I have had sheets bobble was a Chinese rubber that was shipped from China to the USA. Well except one sheet of outlaw years ago.
Lesson for me is I probably need to hit harder:). Maybe for you is go with another brand or even no chinese stuff?

Nope, doesn't apply. I live in the US, it only took two days to get here. As for Chinese stuff...I'm just about ready to give up. I wasn't trying to play Chinese "european/japanese" style rubbers to be cheap...I actually like their playing characteristics more than Tenergy or Bluefire or similar rubbers. I would gladly pay more if were assured that the rubbers I'm paying for are high quality. Paying $20 for a rubber like Battle 1 that will bubble pretty much immediately is unacceptable...especially if I can get a Mark V from Japan for $23. It would be unacceptable even if it bubbled in a few days or weeks pretty much every time. The worst thing that can happen is to find yourself in a match with a bubbled rubber. It totally messes up everything.

The only other rubber that may be interesting for me try is Air Illumina, but, of course, now I am gun shy and afraid that it, too, will bubble. Is Cole part of this forum? Can he chime in? Should I maybe post this question in a separate thread?

Air is made by dawei, I think to a higher standard. At least most of the time. I haven't had any problems like that since air tried tuning (big mistake) several years ago now.

AssassinS is the more outlaw-like offering. Substantially faster, firmer topsheet

I don't usually post here although I should. I had to remake my old account to post. I followed your mytt link here.

Thanks for the info, Cole! I may give AssassinS a shot then one of these days...but, as I said, I'm a bit gun shy at this point. Maybe if someone has it locally I may give it a shot. So no reports of any bubbles or topsheet separating so far? What sponge hardness do you carry? It doesn't say on your website.