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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2019, 09:31 
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Where do I begin learning hardbat? How do I ensure that my strokes and form are perfect? There isn't much online. Nobody around here wants to coach anything apart from inverted.

Books are the richest resource I've found. In Table Tennis Illustrated (1953), Douglas Cartland writes: "There is no correct way to play table tennis. There is no single type of stroke which must be utilized in order to succeed. But there are certain scientific principles which must be applied if the player is ever to become an expert."

Should I take this to heart and just go about it on my own?


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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2019, 12:27 
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You might have to rely on YouTube a lot... Is there anyone else in your area who plays hardbat? Not a lot of these players around (we do have a pretty good one in our club :) ), so do your best to find one and befriend him/her.

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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2019, 13:19 
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I think most clubs would have some older players that still use hard bat...of course they're not always willing to teach/coach, but you can at least watch them play.

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2019, 08:58 
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Any player with a U.S.A. rating above 2400 can play Hardbat very well. They might not know it but they can. All they have to do is adjust the paddle angle when hitting the ball. Muscle memory does the rest. Two former members of Korea's national team visited my house a few years ago and I asked them to try Hardbat. They both played penhold with inverted rubber. In about 3 minutes they were playing like they had played Hardbat all their lives. One was covering the entire table with her forehand, and the other was blocking and hitting all the shots right back. It looked like they were both playing in international play except for the oversized Hardbats they were using.
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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2019, 11:57 
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If you're in the US, check out small town public libraries. I've found books on table tennis that date back to the 1950s and even earlier. There are some that even span the period where sponge was just starting to appear and they have illustrations of BOTH types of strokes (the one by Johnny Leach comes to mind). Hardbat strokes are fundamentally different compared to sponge strokes - for the topspin drive the bat ends up over the head, for instance. Against backspin the bat face is actually open for the topspin drive (don't even think of "looping" - there's not enough friction to do it). Usually one player will attack with topspin, the other will chop, the spin feeds off each other. Lots of videos online - seach for "Marty Reisman" among other things. Topspin-topspin counterdriving wasn't that common.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2019, 12:06 
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iskandar taib wrote:
If you're in the US, check out small town public libraries. I've found books on table tennis that date back to the 1950s and even earlier. There are some that even span the period where sponge was just starting to appear and they have illustrations of BOTH types of strokes (the one by Johnny Leach comes to mind). Hardbat strokes are fundamentally different compared to sponge strokes - for the topspin drive the bat ends up over the head, for instance. Against backspin the bat face is actually open for the topspin drive (don't even think of "looping" - there's not enough friction to do it). Usually one player will attack with topspin, the other will chop, the spin feeds off each other. Lots of videos online - seach for "Marty Reisman" among other things. Topspin-topspin counterdriving wasn't that common.

Iskandar


May be I should check it out, since I suspect hitting FH with LP is much closer to hardbat, and I wanted to learn that for quite some time.

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2019, 14:22 
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Not to mention it also applies to the backhand. If you use OX long pips I think it'd be worth one's while to learn the hardbat topspin drive against backspin. There's also the hardbat flick - the books say you have to begin the stroke with an open racket and (somehow) transition to a closed one at the point of contact, which they say made the shot one of the hardest to do consistently. There's one or two Victor Barna videos on YouTube - he was apparently famous for this.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2019, 23:31 
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Hardbat is nothing like it was in the 50s and 60s.
Search "Hardbat championships, 2017".
Watch the top players and you would think they are using inverted.

The forhand used to be this big convex stroke. Not anymore.


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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2019, 00:26 
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I played hardbat in the 50s. I warmed up briefly with Reisman once at a nationals. I played at "the dungeon" in New York city. He would not play me unless I bet $100. No, I would not bet. He would have killed me.
You still have choppers but at the top level, it is a different game now.
Comparing the game then with the game now would be like comparing the top downhill skiers then and now. It is totally different.
Unless you just want to have fun with a different bat, dont study the vids from the 50s and 60s. Check vids from 2015 to 2018. I am talking about high level players.
The attacking players look more like inverted players than the old attackers.


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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2019, 13:43 
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Just wanted to say thanks for the insightful discussion. The old movies are interesting. Lots of snap from the arm. Straighter stances. Footwork I can’t quite decipher.

Practically, pushing with a less open angle and driving with a more open one is working for me.


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